Metal vs Tek Tier... weak point

[Cucharon]

25 minutes ago, iAmE said:

In reality, you would layer Metal->Tek->Adobe, and be completely unable to see the Tek at all, to be optimal in a PvP setting. Don't want your outer layer being vulnerable to Tek shots when you likely have your turrets resting on that outer layer. 

 

It doesn't just look and feel ridiculous, it truly is ridiculous. In all likelihood, the current Tek Structures will likely never be used outside of aesthetics. 

At least Tek Tier could act like adobe for insulation in Scorched Earth :-/

[Yig]

It was likely based on that outdated and quite frankly stupid idea that if something is supreme it needs to weak to itself. The only dragons can kill dragons principle in old fantasy. The problem is, people took that and implemented it as dragons are weak to dragons rather than they are so damn strong that only other things that are so damn strong can hurt them. Pokemon did the weak to itself thing for instance. Now we have supremely powerful tek that is shredded by tek but super effective against everything else. As if a highly technological structure wouldn't be built with defenses in mind towards the same level of weaponry that the tek structure originates from. Stupid and gimmicky concept. Have they never seen a focused laser being dispersed upon hitting a high tech shield?

 

Why couldn't they just keep what already works? If u want to destroy tek structures you use tek explosives (or copious amounts of normal explosives) or something of that nature. It works. It makes sense. Tek should take less damage from everything compared to metal. Simple as that. The metal looks like rusted garbage in the first place. How can that possibly stop futuristic tech more than a futuristic tech structure? *Sigh*

 

EDIT: And it should also insulate better than adobe so that scorched earth can finally overcome the need to layer structures as well.

[Roland151b]

We routinely use 20+ bred and imprinted Rexs to farm bosses, doing a Medium Brood with 4 non imprinted Rexs... Yea I'm not thinking so, either you are getting lucky and Brood is bugging out and not attacking or something along those lines or I call BS.

[bulldog1986]

Its not hard to raid with tek tier considering that the tek rifles you bring over retain their ammo and ability to fire until they are empty (as does the armor and saddle0. Couple that with having 5 rifles, rotating them back through a transmitter you place down, a tek raid is distinctly possible and feasible.

[Yig]

All we can hope for is that wild card realizes how bad of an idea this is or we find out that this is only a temporary thing until proper tek explosives are added to the game.

[Cucharon]

You know, there is something I don't understand.

A lot quantity of structures causes a performance problem. Then, why developers added a tier that force us to make a new layer, increasing this problem? At least with insulation we could replace adobe in Scorched instead of add more than 200 structures for a medium size base.

[Yig]

That's a good point. Not only does it promote the alpha of the server making sure no one else gets tek it also will further increase load times for bases and lower what is possible to be built due to console build limitations being reached more frequently. This sounds wonderful... ugh...

 

EDIT: Also, did anyone see a Tek Fence Foundation?

[ClamsJager]

On ‎2‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 4:21 AM, iAmE said:

I'm not shifting the goalposts. You're fabricating hypothetical situations where my statement isn't true. I said it costs more Element to destroy the base, then it costs to create a Shield Generator. That is true. You then crafted a hypothetical scenario (Assuming that no one is ever going to have a Rex Saddle to do it with), in which to make my statement untrue. I made a simple statement, I'll even quote it for you

 

"It costs less Element to destroy an entire tek tier base"

 

Now, let's break down the statement I made. Or rather, the relevant part. 

 

Cost. 

 

noun

 

1. 1.

   an amount that has to be paid or spent to buy or obtain something.

Now, let's break that definition down even further. 

 

Definition of pay

 to give in return for goods or service 

 

In this case, and breaking the english down to it's exact definitions, You are not "Paying" for a Saddle here, and neither did I say, claim or indicate that it was so. Further on that, "Cost" implies that you "Give" Something, which generally means you do not *Have it*. 

 

Therefore, no. It does not "Cost" an additional 40 Element to raid a base because you had to make a Saddle. It cost you 40 Element to make the saddle. Not raid the base. The saddle and raiding the bases are two separate, though related, purchases. 

 

 

As a side note;

I'm surprised a CM would purposefully, by his own admission, derail a thread and pick on a poster for his language, even if it was, in his opinion incorrect, despite the fact that the language clearly conveys the meaning and purpose of the post, as well as being on topic. I'm fairly certain that picking on posts (Which is actually, again, by your own admission, you are doing), for language problems, is against, or frowned upon on these forums due to the multi-national background that this game enjoys. I would appreciate you restraining yourself from picking on my language in such a manner, particularly when the idea and point of the post was clearly conveyed, even if you personally disagreed with it. 

 

Cheers. 

your not going to win, this is going to end with a 72 hour ban and all your posts getting "hidden"   Trust me I have tried to do what you are and have failed, the admins always win even if wrong, they have power to silence.

[iAmE]

11 minutes ago, ClamsJager said:

your not going to win, this is going to end with a 72 hour ban and all your posts getting "hidden"   Trust me I have tried to do what you are and have failed, the admins always win even if wrong, they have power to silence.

I am happy to say, that for once on these forums, me disagreeing with an Mod did not end with me being banned. Whatever you say about Ciabatta bread, he is, at the very least, a gracious loser. 

[ClamsJager]

1 minute ago, iAmE said:

I am happy to say, that for once on these forums, me disagreeing with an Mod did not end with me being banned. Whatever you say about Ciabatta bread, he is, at the very least, a gracious loser. 

Yea Chiabatta Buns is one of the Okay mods, if it were the other one that runs around here you would have been toast after the second post!

[iAmE]

3 minutes ago, ClamsJager said:

Yea Chiabatta Buns is one of the Okay mods, if it were the other one that runs around here you would have been toast after the second post!

Yeah, I still hold hope that eventually they'll improve or they'll prune the ban-happy ones. If the game is still EA, does that mean the forums are too?

[ClamsJager]

49 minutes ago, iAmE said:

Yeah, I still hold hope that eventually they'll improve or they'll prune the ban-happy ones. If the game is still EA, does that mean the forums are too?

not sure great question! I don't think ARK will ever be out of EA

[Tanchyon]

On 28/02/2017 at 2:32 PM, iAmE said:

Manticore and Broodmother are the easiest bosses out there, as they still get "Pinned". That being said, an alpha advanced enough to raid with Tek Tier isn't going to do brood. 5 people, guns and bullets along, with 1 person on a Therizino with sweet cakes can kill the hard dragon in about 10 minutes. That's much more likely then running Brood. Manticore is unavoidable, but yeah. 

 

The issue with bosses isn't that they're hard to do, it's that they're impossible to do without exploits. 

They aren't impossible to do without exploits.  I farm broodmother and I probably only pin her less than half the time.

 

Still though I want to see you do medium bm with just a handful of rexes.  That would be sweet.

[Cucharon]

:-/ Today I was looking fps in my base and they are really low. I wonder what will happens if we start to add another layer for the Tek Tier...

[iAmE]

4 minutes ago, Cucharon said:

:-/ Today I was looking fps in my base and they are really low. I wonder what will happens if we start to add another layer for the Tek Tier...

Assuming you're playing PvP, you wouldn't add another layer of Tek Tier. It's inefficient. Just add 2 more layers of metal, or 50-100 auto turrets. Same amount of resources, but a much better return. 

[Cucharon]

1 minute ago, iAmE said:

Assuming you're playing PvP, you wouldn't add another layer of Tek Tier. It's inefficient. Just add 2 more layers of metal, or 50-100 auto turrets. Same amount of resources, but a much better return. 

Ehm... No.

Tek Tier structures don't cost double metal, and provides x4 explosion resistance.

[iAmE]

1 minute ago, Cucharon said:

Ehm... No.

Tek Tier structures don't cost double metal, and provides x4 explosion resistance.

35 Metal, 20 Poly, 15 Crystal and 1 Element vs 25 Metal and 7 Paste. It's more then double the cost. 

 

While it provides 4x Explosion resist, it's incredibly weak to Tek Rifle/Rex Saddle shots, with Bosses being, easy, though expensive, to do, it's just not worth it. Auto Turrets can shoot rockets down, but can't shoot Tek projectiles. 

 

Feel free to build out of it, but it's not worth it. 

[Cucharon]

Just now, iAmE said:

35 Metal, 20 Poly, 15 Crystal and 1 Element vs 25 Metal and 7 Paste. It's more then double the cost. 

 

While it provides 4x Explosion resist, it's incredibly weak to Tek Rifle/Rex Saddle shots, with Bosses being, easy, though expensive, to do, it's just not worth it. Auto Turrets can shoot rockets down, but can't shoot Tek projectiles. 

 

Feel free to build out of it, but it's not worth it. 

Damm... we have been talking 3 pages about the problem of the tek rifle, obviously that's the problem and that's why I am not building it!

[iAmE]

2 minutes ago, Cucharon said:

Damm... we have been talking 3 pages about the problem of the tek rifle, obviously that's the problem and that's why I am not building it!

Then at least we're on the same page.

 

That being said, even on the assumption that Tek Projectiles aren't a problem, I question the general usability of the tek tier. One, it is, around, twice as hard to farm as Metal Structures due to Crystal and Element requirements, in addition to its metal+poly costs, so it has to be, in general, twice as durable. Second, it cuts in, heavily, on the Crystal resource, which is a pretty big deal in PvP due to the fact that Crystal is also the gate for explosives. Given the fact that raiding is largely gated around Turret Density vs Tanking, and not building durability, it might end up still being inferior in applicability to metal, due to the fact that attacking is so very much easier to do then defending, and crippling your offense (Less explosives) for a marginal defensive increase might not be worth it.

 

But first they need to address the tek projectiles and bosses being horrible to do. 

[Doom]

On 2/27/2017 at 4:41 PM, Jostabeere said:

I wanna see that. People are struggling to kill the low one with 10 non imprinted Max Rexes and you kill Medium with 4?

Same here. We did her on medium with 16 bred, 90 armor saddles, 100% imprinted rexes, averaging 30-40k health and 700+ melee and still lost the 7 that weren't being riden.

[Shrekasaurus]

On 2/28/2017 at 5:38 AM, iAmE said:

I just feel that your solution is literally killing every human on the planet to solve an Ebola outbreak.

Kind of reminds me of "The Flood" from Halo....