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Do Rocket Launchers do too much damage?


LilNastyGurl

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Do Rocket Launchers do too much damage?

I remember when I was a fresher player I used to think the Rocket Launcher was not that great, considering you only had 10 shots (maybe), the rockets were unreliable to aim, had short range, and were easily ignored by Auto-turrets. Not only that, a regular metal wall can handle the punishment from one easily. They were too expensive for what they were.

Two years later, I realized that they are so awesome. For everyone but the person you blow up with them. Then I got a hold of a Mastercraft Rocket Launcher and things have never been the same.

I've kind of realized while Mastercraft Rocket Launchers can wipe out chunks of metal walls/ceilings and other base defenses in less shots than a Primitive, there is nothing that matches it defense wise. There ain't no mastercraft walls, no Apprentice auto-turrets. You just have to hope you have enough room to stack more walls in front of your walls and cover more area with your auto-turrets.

What do you guys think about Rocket Launchers? Improvements? Nerfs? Stagnancy or Innovation? 

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In my honest opinion it's defenses that are too strong. The reason I say this is, is that people are not comparing apples to apples.

Auto Turrets and Plant Species X are significantly more powerful than their Rocket Launcher and Player counterparts. Auto Turrets are so strong that people needed to abuse Turtles and Golems with Beer just to hope to drain the bullets, and considering the extremely cheap cost of both the Turrets and Bullets, and how many turrets you can put up (not to mention having turrets set to target 'Only Players' means that they won't even shoot tames unless they have a Rider.

If Launchers got toned down, we would need a corresponding nerf to how effective Auto Turrets are.

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Yes. I'm surprised and glad to see this topic when I was thinking about THIS just the other day, because I know certain players who have MC and Ascendant Rocket Launchers on official servers and it's actually concerning. :o 

What is it, like 1 shot with an MC launcher to a metal wall to bring it down to about 700 health? something like that. You're right - there's no higher quality metal walls nor auto turrets so that is a big balance issue in itself, especially since higher quality rocket launchers have a much longer durability and rockets are so easy to make, probably too easy to make in my opinion... 

I'm not so sure on solutions right now but if it was up to me, I'd significantly reduce the damage of MC and Asc Launchers, or nerf their damage to structures only but keep their increased damage effect working vs players and dinos, I don't know. Something needs to be done though, competitive PvP/base defense goes out of the window when somebody turns up with an MC+ launcher. :/

 

Edit: I do see Orion's point too. I do love how auto turrets are right now though as we don't raid people for fun, we're more focused on base defense.

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as someone whos using a 620dmg rocketlauncher i have to say, if u have access to these, they are pricy but way to strong.

oneshotting foundations and threeshotting vaults is just not fair for the ppl who couldnt abuse the jump event on the center. but tbh in my opinion every blueprint gained in the time of the jump event or the fishing release patch should be removed anyway. cuz when u have access to 800dmg pikes a ptera rider is never a threat again. crafting a pike with 800 dmg has almost no costs whatsoever and u can one or twoshot the ptera rider off if he grabs you. when a wyvern or quetz flys into me he just eats a 620dmg rocket and dies instantly. im only moving on the ground in pvp atm cuz the blueprints i have access to are just way to strong and im only using dinos to tank turrets

 

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It's a difficult question, because if you look at real life (war footage or weapon test videos) then a rocket will generally make a big mess of whatever it hits - walls get blown apart and the surrounding area is severely damaged. When you compare the damage a launcher does to an in-game wall, it perhaps isn't really too far off - in fact, you could say that we even get off lucky as more often than not only the 1 piece of wall/ceiling will be destroyed (admittedly a foundation will take down whatever it's supporting generally).

However... it is too easy to get into someone's metal base, especially if it's only single-skinned. OK, people will say "build thicker walls then!" and I do, but they're ugly and make the structure larger than it needs to be. A better tier of material wall would be the best solution, I think - but it would need to be balanced. If you're a player who is going to spend the effort and materials to create double/triple foundations (which is stupid in it's own right when you think about it) and x amount of corresponding walls then you're likely to be someone who'd not complain if a blueprint was available that afforded you the equivalent protection in 1 piece, but cost the same or perhaps even slightly more than the cost of all those individual pieces. Those 'premium' blueprints could be available to all building materials.

I don't know how you manage their availability - e.g. is an 'ascendant metal wall' engram just available for all via the regular engram list? Is it an occasional drop in loot crates or drops of a certain colour, or in a certain area? I suppose that would make the game more interesting and it probably wouldn't make it any more unbalanced than now, as you have people with various mastercraft bp's found in crates and caves etc anyway.

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44 minutes ago, TranqRex said:

It's a difficult question, because if you look at real life (war footage or weapon test videos) then a rocket will generally make a big mess of whatever it hits - walls get blown apart and the surrounding area is severely damaged. When you compare the damage a launcher does to an in-game wall, it perhaps isn't really too far off - in fact, you could say that we even get off lucky as more often than not only the 1 piece of wall/ceiling will be destroyed (admittedly a foundation will take down whatever it's supporting generally).

If you look on the real life on the other hand ... when you would be sleeping at your base and someone would shoot rocket on it it would definitelly wake you up and you would go defend it ... but when you are sitting in your office for next 4 hours you cant just turn on steam, then ark and go defend your base ... that could be beginning of the end of your employment ... so since we cant be there at any time like we would in real life we need some kind of system mechanics to help us defend while offline

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It's kinda funny that a MC rocket launcher can do more damage than a primitive one?

What I mean is, it's the rocket that does the damage not the launcher...Yet are there MC rocket(ammunition) blueprints?

What if a primitive rocket launcher was slightly shorter in range and less accurate, while a MC rocket launcher has slightly longer range and more accurate.  Then make all rockets(ammo) equal in damage.

If you really really want rocket launchers to do more damage then you could possibly make it so you find a better quality rocket (ammo) blue print - then you pay more resources for bigger damage using the better blueprint.

 

This kind of system could be introduced to all ranged weapons too.

MC turret is more accurate and has slightly longer range - MC turret(ammo) deals more damage at a higher cost of resources per bullet.

Primitive Rifle is a little more shaky to hold (unbalanced weighty) - A MC rifle is easier to hold and aim, less shaky...  Then you can have MC bullets which do more damage at the cost of more resources.

 

 

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You guys are making it more complicated than it needs to be.

 

Nerf rocket damage or buff structure health. Make a wall thickness system  maybe combine walls with a nee structure and behemoth walls which can also be combined.

 

This would help lag because instead of a triple walled base you would have 1 wall with 3x the health and instead of using 20 walls to make a fence you use 1 behemoth wall.

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2 hours ago, Sigin said:

If you look on the real life on the other hand ... when you would be sleeping at your base and someone would shoot rocket on it it would definitelly wake you up and you would go defend it ... but when you are sitting in your office for next 4 hours you cant just turn on steam, then ark and go defend your base ... that could be beginning of the end of your employment ... so since we cant be there at any time like we would in real life we need some kind of system mechanics to help us defend while offline

Offline raiding is another topic entirely though, not the attack method vs structure defence debate the OP proposes. Even if defensive structures were 3x health, they don't save you from a determined raider - they just make his task a bit longer and more expensive.

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3 hours ago, Sigin said:

If you look on the real life on the other hand ... when you would be sleeping at your base and someone would shoot rocket on it it would definitelly wake you up and you would go defend it ... but when you are sitting in your office for next 4 hours you cant just turn on steam, then ark and go defend your base ... that could be beginning of the end of your employment ... so since we cant be there at any time like we would in real life we need some kind of system mechanics to help us defend while offline

Maybe off topic but I like this idea.  Someone should pose the question to the dev's, are you planning some sort of notification system, maybe an Ark phone app that is triggered when damage is happening to your base/dino's?  Of course if you live in a dangerous area like I do where things are attacking your base all the time this might be annoying, so you should have a setting to determine at what point you get a message.

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Just now, Melcreif said:

Maybe off topic but I like this idea.  Someone should pose the question to the dev's, are you planning some sort of notification system, maybe an Ark phone app that is triggered when damage is happening to your base/dino's.  Of course if you live in a dangerous area like I do where things are attacking your base all the time this might be annoying, so you should have a setting to determine at what point you get a message.

This is already a thing, no? On PC at least - you can configure the tripwire notifications to an email address.

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I'm going to say tentatively yes, but largely because of the current meta that greater empowers offense over defense. Right now, the only real practical defenses are turrets and PSX, and rockets will tear through bases. My biggest issue with that is other explosives are more expensive, yet do less damage (you know, the C4 charge). IMO, rockets ought to be changed so that they favor anti-personnel combat with reduced efficiency against structures. Ramp up C4's power, particularly against structures, and potentially increase the initial cost of auto-turrets (since their ammo is pretty cheap). I think that would provide a good start to balancing that side of PvP, though we'd need to wait and see how it plays out.

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On 2/22/2017 at 8:26 AM, TranqRex said:

This is already a thing, no? On PC at least - you can configure the tripwire notifications to an email address.

While I like the tripwire notifications they don't really help notify you when your guns are going crazy against somebody dropping a sponge dino in your base.

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* Rocket Launcher & C4 rebalance: C4 now does approximately 70% more damage to Structures than Rockets. Rocket Launcher can no longer have Item Stats (though its base Damage has been increased 20% to compensate). Rocket Turrets now take a slight amount of damage when they fire, and can not fire under 5% HP.

 

 

Oh my!

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1 minute ago, LilNastyGurl said:

* Rocket Launcher & C4 rebalance: C4 now does approximately 70% more damage to Structures than Rockets. Rocket Launcher can no longer have Item Stats (though its base Damage has been increased 20% to compensate). Rocket Turrets now take a slight amount of damage when they fire, and can not fire under 5% HP.

 

 

Oh my!

Are you happy now? :D 

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On 2/22/2017 at 7:36 AM, TranqRex said:

Offline raiding is another topic entirely though, not the attack method vs structure defence debate the OP proposes. Even if defensive structures were 3x health, they don't save you from a determined raider - they just make his task a bit longer and more expensive.

Maybe have virtual security cameras at your base that can be checked from an app?

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On 22.2.2017 at 5:25 PM, Melcreif said:

Maybe off topic but I like this idea.  Someone should pose the question to the dev's, are you planning some sort of notification system, maybe an Ark phone app that is triggered when damage is happening to your base/dino's?  Of course if you live in a dangerous area like I do where things are attacking your base all the time this might be annoying, so you should have a setting to determine at what point you get a message.

Interesting and good idea. I how ever see a tactic of driving the defender mad by making false positives as a very easy method. 

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