Did you know WC is cutting tribes to 400 tames in 2 days???

[Halsey]

3 hours ago, vanyelxp5 said:

Honestly, if tribes actually played as tribes (as in, not going "This is mine! Go tame your own!" as the game's designers clearly intended) it wouldn't be much of a hindrance to their ability to play. Now, a 20 person tribe is a bit much for this limit, but 1-5 people who are actually working as a single unit toward group goals? They'll barely even notice the limit if they're not hoarders.

I don't actually disagree with you.  That said, PvE is a bit of a different beast, in the end game goals are kind of a free for all, ranging from, build cool crap, to collect all the dinos, to breeding both for colors and stats.  The load some builds put on the servers winds up being a similar issue.

Sticking with dinos though, as that is the current discussion, breeding in particular tends to multiply the numbers needed.  I mentioned that I've only been playing a few months, I just started breeding a couple weeks ago, I'm working on stats on Ankys and playing with colors on Pteras at the moment.  My dino count has more than doubled since I started breeding, most of the increase in just those two types.  1-5 people, your point likely stands, especially if they all have a common goal, but as soon as it starts to diverge, even if they are all breeders, just working on different breeds, it can rapidly get out of hand.

The biggest thing is, while I play solo by choice, as you said it's clear the designers meant this game to highly encourage group / tribe play.  Anything that makes it a negative should be avoided as much as possible.  The best solution in my mind, is personal limits, combined PLUS a bonus for a tribe total, ie 40 per person, plus 20 for every 5  or fraction of 5 people in the tribe, ie. solo, 40 dinos, 2 person tribe 40 + 40 + 20 = 100 dinos, 3 people 140, 4 =180, 5 =220, 6 = 280(second group of 5 bonus).  Those are random numbers to use as an example, and probably not good ones.  Low enough and tribes almost become mandatory, as does sharing the utility tames and egg layers just for the sake of efficiency.  Please bear in mind, this would be particularly bad for my preferred play style, I would need to either be ruthless in efficiency on egg layers, and culling breeding animals or join a tribe just for the bonus dinos, and the ability to share the utility dinos and free up some slots.  Just seems a solution more in line with the rest of their design.

[vanyelxp5]

24 minutes ago, Halsey said:

I don't actually disagree with you.  That said, PvE is a bit of a different beast, in the end game goals are kind of a free for all, ranging from, build cool crap, to collect all the dinos, to breeding both for colors and stats.  The load some builds put on the servers winds up being a similar issue.

Sticking with dinos though, as that is the current discussion, breeding in particular tends to multiply the numbers needed.  I mentioned that I've only been playing a few months, I just started breeding a couple weeks ago, I'm working on stats on Ankys and playing with colors on Pteras at the moment.  My dino count has more than doubled since I started breeding, most of the increase in just those two types.  1-5 people, your point likely stands, especially if they all have a common goal, but as soon as it starts to diverge, even if they are all breeders, just working on different breeds, it can rapidly get out of hand.

The biggest thing is, while I play solo by choice, as you said it's clear the designers meant this game to highly encourage group / tribe play.  Anything that makes it a negative should be avoided as much as possible.  The best solution in my mind, is personal limits, combined PLUS a bonus for a tribe total, ie 40 per person, plus 20 for every 5  or fraction of 5 people in the tribe, ie. solo, 40 dinos, 2 person tribe 40 + 40 + 20 = 100 dinos, 3 people 140, 4 =180, 5 =220, 6 = 280(second group of 5 bonus).  Those are random numbers to use as an example, and probably not good ones.  Low enough and tribes almost become mandatory, as does sharing the utility tames and egg layers just for the sake of efficiency.  Please bear in mind, this would be particularly bad for my preferred play style, I would need to either be ruthless in efficiency on egg layers, and culling breeding animals or join a tribe just for the bonus dinos, and the ability to share the utility dinos and free up some slots.  Just seems a solution more in line with the rest of their design.

While I think your numbers are a bit low, I agree with what you're saying.

 

As far as egg layers are concerned, there are two ways to do that. Either focus only on the things that lay eggs for the things you want to tame (if you're a Rex guy, you want scorpions, which you don't even need Oviraptors for) If you're a Spino guy, you need Argys, and a few Oviraptors.

 

Obviously nobody is going to want to tame only one type of dinosaur, and they shouldn't be forced to. But limiting what you have doesn't have to be a bad thing. Seeing the server limit is what lead me to looking up exactly how egg laying worked, and let me cull 50 dinosaurs from my egg farm without losing any functionality. Though specializing in brontos has made me really wish that stacking in more females was actually useful... They take a lot of kibble.

In all honesty, I don't have very many personal dinos. Haven't needed them. I've got a rock elemental for stone, a giga for meat, a couple of allos that I really like the color mutations on, a weight quetz, a power theriz and a delicate theriz, and a couple of brontos trained for specific tasks (cargo hauling on one, berry gathering and mass genocide on the other.) The rest is the egg farm, and bronto breeders, which breed the brontos that I sell for metal on my server.

[rawsh]

41 minutes ago, vanyelxp5 said:

While I think your numbers are a bit low, I agree with what you're saying.

 

As far as egg layers are concerned, there are two ways to do that. Either focus only on the things that lay eggs for the things you want to tame (if you're a Rex guy, you want scorpions, which you don't even need Oviraptors for) If you're a Spino guy, you need Argys, and a few Oviraptors.

 

Obviously nobody is going to want to tame only one type of dinosaur, and they shouldn't be forced to. But limiting what you have doesn't have to be a bad thing. Seeing the server limit is what lead me to looking up exactly how egg laying worked, and let me cull 50 dinosaurs from my egg farm without losing any functionality. Though specializing in brontos has made me really wish that stacking in more females was actually useful... They take a lot of kibble.

In all honesty, I don't have very many personal dinos. Haven't needed them. I've got a rock elemental for stone, a giga for meat, a couple of allos that I really like the color mutations on, a weight quetz, a power theriz and a delicate theriz, and a couple of brontos trained for specific tasks (cargo hauling on one, berry gathering and mass genocide on the other.) The rest is the egg farm, and bronto breeders, which breed the brontos that I sell for metal on my server.

no dragons?, backup dragons?, backup quetz?, that weight bear you always needed, that fiber bear you really need, that gigantopethicus you tamed, that is so dear to you?, gettin where this is going?, weve killed off ~200 dinos already, not that much more than our usual culling over the course of a few months, still we are way above cap, with around 50 slots just for Bossbattle Rexbreeding, and 6 people each with wyverns and backup, each with their own 100% giga,

we will hit the cap, and will try to cope, and then there is tribes who are just beeing idiots, and already saying, "we just gonna put our 35 brontos in a seperate tribe we just love them so much" .... those people are the problem, im not saying the limit is not gonna do anything, but i doubt its gonna do half as much as  WC hopes for,

[Dam Son]

culling in my tribe has begun. it was very much fun

[Halsey]

56 minutes ago, vanyelxp5 said:

While I think your numbers are a bit low, I agree with what you're saying.

Wait, people can agree on the internet, that's allowed ??

57 minutes ago, vanyelxp5 said:

As far as egg layers are concerned, there are two ways to do that. Either focus only on the things that lay eggs for the things you want to tame (if you're a Rex guy, you want scorpions, which you don't even need Oviraptors for) If you're a Spino guy, you need Argys, and a few Oviraptors.

Yup, pretty much what I meant by getting ruthless about egg layers, just what I need, anything 'nice to have' winds up on the trade for list.

58 minutes ago, vanyelxp5 said:

Though specializing in brontos has made me really wish that stacking in more females was actually useful... They take a lot of kibble.

Yes, yes they do.  Would hate to be you, I started with Ankys specifically because they seemed like a decent 'starter' breeding project, part of that was the kibble requirements aren't crazy, and I still find my self shorter than I like on dillo kibble on occasion.  Bet you loved that part of the move to permanent 2x, still take a lot though.

[HeXiFy]

The tame limit is 200... either way unless you're a huge tribe it's a huge number of tames... but it also reduces lag by having a limit 

[vanyelxp5]

7 hours ago, rawsh said:

no dragons?, backup dragons?, backup quetz?, that weight bear you always needed, that fiber bear you really need, that gigantopethicus you tamed, that is so dear to you?, gettin where this is going?, weve killed off ~200 dinos already, not that much more than our usual culling over the course of a few months, still we are way above cap, with around 50 slots just for Bossbattle Rexbreeding, and 6 people each with wyverns and backup, each with their own 100% giga,

we will hit the cap, and will try to cope, and then there is tribes who are just beeing idiots, and already saying, "we just gonna put our 35 brontos in a seperate tribe we just love them so much" .... those people are the problem, im not saying the limit is not gonna do anything, but i doubt its gonna do half as much as  WC hopes for,

Forgot about my wyvern.

 

Have a bear, but I count is as part of the egg farm because I use it as a flock guard, same with my wolves. And my therizinos pull double duty on the egg farm, and gathering for me when I need stuff.

[Lhazi]

17 hours ago, Halsey said:

From what I've seen on Reddit and Twitter, the only people this affects are those of us playing on Official PC PvE servers, I believe Jen specifically answered someone on her twitter feed and said there will be no change to the xBox limits right now.

 

That said, the cap will certainly change things a bit, I've only been playing a few months, and solo by choice, this is one more point against joining a tribe.  I'm no where near the cap at the moment, but as has been mentioned plenty in this thread, the biggest flaw I see with the cap is the anti tribe push.  Even if you play in a group it's pushing towards a group of individuals as opposed to a tribe.

I get the Xbox is diff than pc/steam but if ppl are complaining because they are being REDUCED to 400 what was/is the cap prior? And how do u think Tribes on Xbox feel who has Had A 200 limit Cap....  

[BaMxBooZeLLed]

I thought it was lower then that anyway(On xbox) I feel like we only had maybe 100-140 tames before we got that terrible message.

[Frozenhole]

On 2/20/2017 at 6:40 PM, vanyelxp5 said:

I have also been running a public egg farm, but I am nowhere near the cap. 39 species currently useful for kibble, 4 of each needed for optimal egg production unless you're sitting there every time an egg drops. (3 females, 1 male) Final total 156. This includes Oviraptors if spaced carefully. May need 1-2 more if your farm is spread out too much.

 

Regardless, the cap won't hurt you immediately even if you're over it. Jen on twitter clearly stated that a tribe that is over the cap will simply be unable to tame/breed again until they are under the cap.

Egg farm for what you still going to tame a trike at 100 no your not your a hoarder....

[Frozenhole]

On 2/21/2017 at 4:22 AM, OdamN81 said:

and another weak decision for PvE servers...

as a Tribe leader of a major PvE tribe on an official server, this will be the deathblow for us, as we currently stand. It will fragment my large tribe, to several smaller tribes, so it won’t help the server performance by any means at all.

Successfully forming a large international PvE tribe on an official server is difficult, because you can only recruit people you can trust, since tribe ranks configuration on an existing tribe is nearly impossible, even new tribes struggle to make it work without experienced supervision.

So i can only recruit long-term players, i spend a lot of time with, ofc. they have their own base and dinos when they actually merge to us.

I do encourage my members to join the communal Headquarters and its surrounding private houses, sharing dinos, duties and resources, to enjoy tribe life. BUT i wont force any of my members to leave what they worked on in the past month behind.

I cant recruit random lowlvl players in an advanced PvE-Tribe, because the risk is high, and benefit low, tho it ruins his game experience, to start naked, and having access to the strongest dinos, armors & weapons 2minutes laters.

A large tribe on PvE server has several benefits besides the game mechanics; you can go on Holidays for more then 6 days again!

Official servers dont have any administration, to have a nice & friendly environment to play in, it needs diplomatic people with authority, power and calm nerves.

A large international tribe can solve most issues with diplomacy, because we can break most language barriers, and everyone rather likes to have a good relationship to us, so we can work out compromises everyone is happy with.

Im afraid this will not only split up my tribe, it will also harm the whole community on my poor old server.

TL:DR

Capping tamed dinos per tribe, just splits tribes, will make alot of people mad/sad because they have to rebuild their bases, but doesn’t kill a single dino at all.

What is worse? A 20player tribe with like 15bases and about 1200 dinos spread over the map, or 20 single player tribes with a solo base and 100 dinos each, spread all over the map?

Suggestion:

1.Cap dinos per player in the tribe, solo players don’t need 400dinos, like large tribes actually do(caving, bossfights, breeding, trading, eggs)! Encourage people to join a tribe, not to split off from them.

2.Remove ability to claim dinos from inactive players, it destroys the game experience (evolve) for new player, and leads to more and more tamed dinos on the server.

3.Change standard tribe configuration on creation of tribe.(everything on lowest rank, is impossible to reconfigure for large tribes)

4. Remove Titano from PvE entirely.

btw. what is next? i guess it will be "-maxStructuresperTribe=1000", because since you moved the Database instance from the original game server, people with good/awesome hardware get disconnected because they charge your ODBC connections too much resulting in timeout... meaning disconnect for the player on structure heavy areas.(Also feels like your controls constantly rubberband)

sad regards 

Cpt. big H

Its not a deathblow since when do you need 900 animals and 10 farms of crap for all of us going around your base to suffer from massive video lag due to all the crap that has to load up. You sit on animals like you would do with a graveyard full of cars or planes you dont play the game your a bonnified zookeeper

 

[BigRed1227]

It's tribes with 100's of low level egg layers that ruin the server performance. Why do you need that many? ESPECIALLY ON PVE

Strategy #1: tame a bunch of low level egg layers, say dilos for example...have 100 of them. Get yourself a good stock of eggs to turn into kibble, then kill them. Tame up the next dino, get a good stock of that egg, then kill them off....so on and so forth. Once you get a bronto, why do you need 20+ trikes? Bronto benefits overshadow trikes all day every day, especially for more experienced players. I still have 2 150 mated pair trikes just to have the skeletal skins....but I never use them. 

Strategy #2: Once you have the pt 150's of the next dino, kill off the others....if you are going to breed, do so now. ***Hypathetical Scenario***,  you have 5 turtles, all with above average stats in the categories....mate them until you get the stats you want or better and move on To those and kill off or sell off the rest. No reason to keep them around. 

Final point: what can a low level egg layer do that a high level cannot? Both lay eggs....

[Manta]

It's totally about hording, we see this all over our servers, tons of useless dinos lined up in neat little rows that never move or are used. [not egg farms]

Or that guy with 25 dragons, what for, its stupid at best. It's about qty for these kind of players, the only way to stop it is to implement some caps.

I am for large caps on all of this from dinos to tames to structures, in a sand box there is only so much sand and that applies to ARK.

Just last night on one of our PvE's we play, I saw this guy just building a spiral stair case into the sky, no reasons, it was massive. [why]

I assume he did it because he could. Maybe it was gonna be a base jumping platform I dunno. But man the lag there is horrendous because of this one towering structure.

We avoid that area now.

 

 

 

 

[perk8504]

"you can't reasonably play the game with a tribe with only 400 dinos"

reminds me a lot of the time someone told me

"you just can't live off $100k/year anymore"

[vanyelxp5]

5 hours ago, Frozenhole said:

Egg farm for what you still going to tame a trike at 100 no your not your a hoarder....

The only things I've tamed in the last month have been brontos. Others have tamed things with eggs from my farm though, because again, it is a PUBLIC farm. Anyone on the server is free to use it. If they're in a hurry, I also sell eggs pretty cheap.

 

I still tame brontos in hopes of getting improvements on my line. Seems like only 1 in 30 is of use for that these days though.

[Halsey]

 

9 hours ago, Lhazi said:

I get the Xbox is diff than pc/steam but if ppl are complaining because they are being REDUCED to 400 what was/is the cap prior? And how do u think Tribes on Xbox feel who has Had A 200 limit Cap....  

As far as I know on PC, there was a server total cap, but no tribe or player cap on dinos.  Yeah there are some exceptionally large collection on the server I spend most of my time on, a few people there have been playing pretty much since the game was first available.

3 hours ago, vanyelxp5 said:

The only things I've tamed in the last month have been brontos. Others have tamed things with eggs from my farm though, because again, it is a PUBLIC farm. Anyone on the server is free to use it. If they're in a hurry, I also sell eggs pretty cheap.

 

I still tame brontos in hopes of getting improvements on my line. Seems like only 1 in 30 is of use for that these days though.

A bit off topic, but you play on official PvE?  Do any cross Ark trading?

 

[vanyelxp5]

Just now, Halsey said:

 

As far as I know on PC, there was a server total cap, but no tribe or player cap on dinos.  Yeah there are some exceptionally large collection on the server I spend most of my time on, a few people there have been playing pretty much since the game was first available.

A bit off topic, but you play on official PvE?  Do any cross Ark trading?

 

I do play on official pve. Haven't posted my babies on the forums yet, but I've been told that I really should. No mutations yet, but they're very strong. Right now I'm working on getting some colors in as well as a new Health stat. PM me if you want details.

[Halsey]

11 minutes ago, vanyelxp5 said:

I do play on official pve. Haven't posted my babies on the forums yet, but I've been told that I really should. No mutations yet, but they're very strong. Right now I'm working on getting some colors in as well as a new Health stat. PM me if you want details.

I will, as soon as I figure out how, may be a day or two, I'm guessing along with being able to even see the trade forums, it's tied to me getting out of the 'early bird' group.  Which looks to be tied to post count, but there is a daily limit on posting as well in the early bird group.

 

To stay on topic, my main server spent most of the valentines event bumping up against the server tame limit.  A few of the more established tribes did some culling at various points to open things up a bit, but it never lasted.  I spent a good chunk of the time looking for a pair of high level Theriz while i could use chocolate.  I took to trailing a couple dodos / dillos along with me so I could kill them to open up a slot if I needed to.  So I know something needs to happen, I guess we'll see soon just how many people are dedicated to getting around the tribe limit.

[vanyelxp5]

The tribes on my server did the same. One of them did a merger with a guy who was leaving, and killed all of the duplicate dinos he had (the lower level versions obviously) So for the last few days of the event we were able to breed pretty much normally as long as everyone did the responsible thing and killed babies that weren't good enough.

[OdamN81]

13 hours ago, Frozenhole said:

Its not a deathblow since when do you need 900 animals and 10 farms of crap for all of us going around your base to suffer from massive video lag due to all the crap that has to load up. You sit on animals like you would do with a graveyard full of cars or planes you dont play the game your a bonnified zookeeper

 

nice...

a personal attack on someone you apparently don’t know at all. Did you actually read what you quoted there? Do you know my base? I don´t think so!

Most likely you did so to make my expression stand weak because you are afraid of a 50dinos/player change i guess...

I´ll give you a summary of my ARK: first of all i personally do life in the communal Headquarters with estimated ~150 Dinos i share with 4 other active tribemembers. My private base in snow biome holds 5 Dinos total, a Spino, 2 Argents and 2 Sabercats.

The newest additions i brought to my tribe consist of a highlvl Chalio, i got gifted for my birthday end of October, and a highlvl Therizio i got gifted for xmass, i dont even know when i tamed/breed my last dino (most likely my dragon)... im a diplomat... 95% of my ingame time i spend talking with other people.

My Tribe i founded in early September 2015, i killed thousands of tamed dinos since the claim mechanic is active, i demolished millions of tiles to keep the server clean before the despawn system was implemented.

My tribe is big, sure there is professional breeders (lvl300+ born / 100% mutations) and ARK X-Traders, who hold more dinos than the communal Headquarters holds for themselves, because they actually enjoy being a breeder or a big Dino Trader.
Actually they would be fine with 400 dinos each, if they were not organized in a big Tribe.

I do work with servers every day, i know there is limitations, clean code and money on hardware cant overcome, there has to be limits...

A fix limit of 400/tribe won’t work, a fix of 50/player won’t work either...Wildcard knows that... only thing this does.... it sells licenses.

My bet is we will get a dinomarkedplace and a permanent upload, on the final version, cuz wildcard could print money by doing so... but for now in EA, a permanent Dinostorage is dead diskspace... just costs Money!

[Vrallox]

2 hours ago, OdamN81 said:

My bet is we will get a dinomarkedplace and a permanent upload, on the final version, cuz wildcard could print money by doing so... but for now in EA, a permanent Dinostorage is dead diskspace... just costs Money!

It does seem like an underhanded thing that Wildcard would be interested in. "Give us more money and you can keep your animals nice and safe in a data vault!" "Give us more money and you can create an auction for your uploaded animals!"

edit: Or enable players to buy and sell dinos with real money? Sheesh.

[AERHAE]

I'm of the opinion that the official network servers mirrors free to play in mmo's today.If you want to have more Dino's setup a private server.If you want more land setup a private server and cluster it to another Ark server running a different map.Still not happy? cluster a third server running another different map.The fact that people are making posts about having to stay under a 400 Dino cap is hilarious to me.I understand that people like to hoard but common,this is early access every one is testing,this is not official play,where not there yet.I cant wait to see the crying about the building limitations that are being proposed.It's funny that PC people are crying about the new 400 limit but the limit on play station/Xbox has always been a 200 cap.Could we be seeing another change on the PC version in the future to fall in line with the consoles? One last thing,the official server network for Ark Survival evolved is drained of its resources for game play due to heavy builds and tribes with large amounts of creatures on most of the official server network.people have to understand this,it is what it is.After 2 years of Early Access we are starting to see them Wild Card address the issues of lag/low server resources, and we are seeing Wild Card start with creatures and tribes.The official server network is not handling the load it has now.Look for changes to come,look for servers to change as well.

[Shodan]

I play on an official server and am part of a tribe of 18 currently active players. They really need to rethink what they are proposing. I understand that limiting Dinos needs to be put in place but surely theres a better and fairer way to do this rather than loose a large chunk of their player base as a consequence. Firstly the limit should scale up if players are in a tribe. It makes no sense at all to punish people that are in a tribe and allow them to have the same amount of Dinos as a single player.

I know similar things have been suggested on other forums and forgive me if its been mentioned here allready but what about a Dino uploading storage system. Whereby you can use the current system thats in place (obelisks + Tek Transmitters) to upload Dinos to and store their details there as a kind of stasis/storage so they don't feed and don't cause a large amount of performance issues on the server. Each server could have its own storage system or it could be incorperated into that players tribe account to allow them to store Dinos for breeding and retrieve them when they would like at a later stage? This could simply be on a button on the Obelisk menu and would then open up a page where you can manage your stored uploaded Dinos. 

This would be a great system to include in the game as it would also be beneficial for someone who wants to take a break from the game and can't feed their dinos for a few weeks. They can upload their Dinos and download them when they come back. This will also help keep a large player base and also solve the perfomance issues and keep everyone happy. There are a lot of players out there that like to have a lot of Dinos and this new limit that is being proposed won't be great in the long run as all tribes will do is move their dinos onto other servers and cause performance issues on other servers instead. Hopefully this is an idea that can be taken onboard.

[JetJaguar]

Has anyone in this thread actually justified and explained it out to everyone why there absolutely is a need for more then 400 dinos? Or is it just: "My tribe has 20 people..." so that equates to needing way, way more then 400 dinos? What does a 20 man tribe do btw? You need 20 for a raid in WoW to do the most difficult content. You can use about half that in Ark for the more difficult boss encounters. Is a tribe of 20 just more of a social thing? If thats the case, if its honestly just a social thing, how many dinos DO you need?

When you say a "big tribe needs more dinos" are these players who log in daily? weekly? Some guy who logs in once every month but has 150 dinos so hes kept around? 

If you're tribe has 10+ and you argue you need far, far, far more dinos then a 2 man tibe, where then is the line drawn on just how many dinos you need? What if you're tribe has more dinos in it then the combined amount of various tribes on the server under 10 people each?

Im just not seeing the logic or need for outrageous amounts of dinos while arguing "My tribe is the largest on the server! Its the biggest tribe. The best tribe. Believe me."

[Kallor]

59 minutes ago, JetJaguar said:

Has anyone in this thread actually justified and explained it out to everyone why there absolutely is a need for more then 400 dinos?

It's a dino game we play for our own enjoyment, there is no 'need'.  You can do pretty much everything without dinos, maybe even bosses with enough people and gear.  So no, no one has justified why they need 400 because you don't need any at all.  Not sure how much fun people would find that, but there are enough that play on the no tame server so it is possible.  Gratz on not making a point.