Alphas taking whole servers... We NEED a solution to this

[Captnmorgan]

49 minutes ago, MikeB said:

Why should players have to solve issues that are caused by bad game design? Its an obvious design flaw being that several other games that allow transfers put deterrents in place to stop this exact issue. You cannot allow a large group of people to amass power then transfer said power to a low-pop server and destroy other peoples hard work. Its just absurd to blame such an issue on players and to allow it.

What luxury do they not provide you that you seek? 

No tame servers 

extinction servers

offline raid protection servers

regualar

unnoffiacial 

offline play.

seriously look at every survival game. This game gives you way more options to find a server and play on then any ther company out there. H1z1 dayz rust look at those games they all have the same problem. You will never get rid of alphas in this genre. You will never stop grouping. You will never stop distruction on pvp servers. Do you have any solutions that any of these companies haven't tried? Bad game mechanics really man I don't think you have a clue what your talking about. Transporting won't stop a alpha from taking over one server then in a couple days making a new character and destroying you on a new server these guys do nothing but play all day in massive groups. even before transfers they would still do that.

 

it takes one day with double xp to hit c-4 or rocket level. It's really not that hard to start on a server and within 2 days start raiding with determined people 

[johnm81]

43 minutes ago, Agro said:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://segmentnext.com/2016/06/28/ark-survival-evolved-servers-wiped/&ved=0ahUKEwifyPnQ94_SAhUT24MKHUWcAB8QFghSMAg&usg=AFQjCNEZU1K_yFduoJHmqlvmm87kkFP0Bg&sig2=8yt72HP-8X36GqXVCJ-Adg 

More of the same different article

The author of that reference is actually spinning what the devs said. What they said was there will be no wipe on official servers. However, they reserve the right to wipe servers that are dead and are costing them expensive bandwidth.

 

http://steamcommunity.com/app/346110/discussions/7/343787283759101650/

[iAmE]

26 minutes ago, Jostabeere said:

I still have hope that people will start thinkining instead of complaining about completely unrelated things because they do not have a safezone.

"People don't play like I want it" - bad game design.

"Servers aren't 100% the way I want them to be" - bad game design.

"PvP guys actively playing PvP and it doesn't apply to my wishes" - bad game design.

I already posted probably 100 times in the same topics where someone cries about Alphas doing alpha stuff.

The only thing you can and should to is adapt to them or git gud and wipe them.

Noone is abusing the system just because you think that OP.

 

 

The problem is that the whole situation in Ark, with Alpha tribes kind of is bad game design. You saying that it isn't, doesn't change that fact.

I posted it in another forum, but it bears repeating;

PvP in Ark is so heavily biased towards attackers and attacking, that it perpetuates a vicious cycle where Alpha's need to constantly Wipe tribes, and servers, to keep themselves from being raided. You can't defend yourself, in almost any circumstance, from an equally geared and equal sized tribe. You either wipe them first, or they wipe you. It isn't feasible to defend yourself in this game, nor is it efficient or smart.

In a game where the only good "Defense" is an overwhelming "Offense", it perpetuates a hardcore ecocide which ends up creating an environment where PvP isn't normal. This is patently a bad design decision.

[Captnmorgan]

Just now, iAmE said:

 

 

The problem is that the whole situation in Ark, with Alpha tribes kind of is bad game design. You saying that it isn't, doesn't change that fact.

 

I posted it in another forum, but it bears repeating;

 

PvP in Ark is so heavily biased towards attackers and attacking, that it perpetuates a vicious cycle where Alpha's need to constantly Wipe tribes, and servers, to keep themselves from being raided. You can't defend yourself, in almost any circumstance, from an equally geared and equal sized tribe. You either wipe them first, or they wipe you. It isn't feasible to defend yourself in this game, nor is it efficient or smart.

 

In a game where the only good "Defense" is an overwhelming "Offense", it perpetuates a hardcore ecocide which ends up creating an environment where PvP isn't normal.

I do agree defenses should be overhauled. Rockets nerf at distance fly wild. Plant turrets stronger or shoot farther ect ect.... the attacker does have advantages at range. 

[Jostabeere]

@iAmE It's the same as real life always handled it in history. Strong tribes/cities/cultures/whatever ensured they will stay at the end of the food chain, killing off all competition. It's natural. And it can't be bad game design if it's natural behavior. Making it any other way is restricting the natural sense of survival in this game. And Ark is called Ark: Survival evolved. Not Ark: Safezones evolved. I see that there have to be certain rules in PvE, like not blocking off spawns and actively kiting dinos into bases, because PvE is a sandbox. But PvP is survival, like I said many times.

And please, don't say it's a fact only because you think it is. Because it's obviously not a fact. Because it's not undeniable truth.

[deedoubledee1]

I have to add it is on a larger scale than other games granted but take for example call of duty you start that game playing against people in groups working together to smash the hell out of you and you start off with next to no gear and have to loose a lot before you win unless you are pretty good at the game, no difference here I am on a great server with a great community who work together to keep it a good server, hundreds of servers to chose from we struggle on some and flourish on others find one that sits you or don't play the game, alternatively play PVE for a year then give PVP a go(Alphas are still on PVE). We had a hard time getting established I guess that's why its a survival game some survive some don't.

Hope my opinion helps.

[MikeB]

57 minutes ago, johnm81 said:

Because it is not from a bad game design. Its from humans making human decisions in a game world that doesn't force or control you like theme park games ie WoW. Players made this problem and players can fix it. And if you truly understood the full possibilities WC has afforded you in this game, you would know that server transfer favor small insurgent style fighters far more than large alpha tribes. So you should be using it to your advantage not asking WC to take away your greatest weapon.

Its illogical to blame an issue that only arose due to a change in game function on the players. If the game did not allow transfers would you still blame players for not allowing them? Players don't allow transfers the dev's do and do so by design. As is in human nature, If you are allowed to cheat the system, ie. steal others hard work instead of doing the work yourself, a large portion of the population will do so, some for the loot and others just out of boredom. Also, as became human nature as of late, people will argue against their own best interest because of misinformation or because they are part of the benefitting party.

[MikeB]

10 minutes ago, deedoubledee1 said:

I have to add it is on a larger scale than other games granted but take for example call of duty you start that game playing against people in groups working together to smash the hell out of you and you start off with next to no gear and have to loose a lot before you win unless you are pretty good at the game, no difference here I am on a great server with a great community who work together to keep it a good server, hundreds of servers to chose from we struggle on some and flourish on others find one that sits you or don't play the game, alternatively play PVE for a year then give PVP a go(Alphas are still on PVE). We had a hard time getting established I guess that's why its a survival game some survive some don't.

Hope my opinion helps.

I appreciate your opinion but how would you feel if an Alpha tribe transferred to your peaceful server and completely wiped it? As this is a reality. It's not about what server you choose to play on anymore but being "lucky" enough to not have an alpha tribe transfer to your server and wipe it out of their own boredom

[ul1sses]

Let me ask you a single question: Imagine that you are going to play a classic War game, but you are going to start in the middle /end of the match. That's OK? It's a good game design?

I ask this because it's exactly the actual state of Ark official servers.

And before someone just come with the last resort excuse "find another server hur dur", just take the variables and decrease the scope of the test: And if there is only 2 servers per region? It's ok for the healty of the game to have a single tribe locking down a entire server turning it on a private one?

Seriously.

 

[Captnmorgan]

5 minutes ago, MikeB said:

I appreciate your opinion but how would you feel if an Alpha tribe transferred to your peaceful server and completely wiped it? As this is a reality. It's not about what server you choose to play on anymore but being "lucky" enough to not have an alpha tribe transfer to your server and wipe it out of their own boredom

Dude I've been wiped by people on my own server as well as alphas it's part of the game. I don't raid and level bases but some do. It doesn't matter everyone's time comes. I've even seen a tiny tribe on a peaceful server wipe the entire server. It's part of the game trust no tribe.

[iAmE]

35 minutes ago, Jostabeere said:

@iAmE It's the same as real life always handled it in history. Strong tribes/cities/cultures/whatever ensured they will stay at the end of the food chain, killing off all competition. It's natural. And it can't be bad game design if it's natural behavior. Making it any other way is restricting the natural sense of survival in this game. And Ark is called Ark: Survival evolved. Not Ark: Safezones evolved. I see that there have to be certain rules in PvE, like not blocking off spawns and actively kiting dinos into bases, because PvE is a sandbox. But PvP is survival, like I said many times.

And please, don't say it's a fact only because you think it is. Because it's obviously not a fact. Because it's not undeniable truth.

You don't understand game design a single bit if you think that something can't be bad game decision because it's natural behavior. That's an utterly laughable statement to make. It's natural behavior to make a person sleep for roughly 30% of the day, but you don't see Ark implementing that feature.

As for it being a fact, it actually is. The game is badly balanced, PvP wise. It is undeniable truth to anyone who has experienced it to any degree beyond raiding thatch huts with spears. This imbalance perpetuates itself into a horrible alpha tribe cycle which forces tribes to actively destroy others, or risk destruction themselves. You point out the fact that in history strong nations/cultures kill off their competition, but at the same time, there are multiple cultures who were, and did, specialize in defending themselves through a variety of means. They could survive by means other then destroying or directly killing their competition.

In this game there is no defense, thus your entire point falls apart. There's a problem when I can, as a solo player, raid bases of 20+ man tribes because they went offline for an hour or two. Offensive assets, such as turtles, growing exponentially, while defensive assets, such as turret ammo, grow linearly, creates an imbalance so oceanic, that it actively destroys the concept of pvp in the game.

[Captnmorgan]

3 minutes ago, ul1sses said:

Let me ask you a single question: Imagine that you are going to play a classic War game, but you are going to start in the middle /end of the match. That's OK? It's a good game design?

I ask this because it's exactly the actual state of Ark official servers.

And before someone just come with the last resort excuse "find another server hur dur", just take the variables and decrease the scope of the test: And if there is only 2 servers per region? It's ok for the healty of the game to have a single tribe locking down a entire server turning on a private one?

Seriously.

 

Where do you play that only has 2 servers in that region? Gotta ask or is that a example? Because there are hundreds of servers not to mention private ones? And yes a guy starting today can make it even on pc or Xbox I see people on forums everyday talking about it. Sharing stories 

[Petraeus]

The solution is really simple and something wildcard is working on. Simply put its a set of servers where transferring is a free-for-all with no limits and a set of servers where no transferring is allowed, period. There are already experimental systems in place testing out these two sets of servers, so hold your horses and wait for it. 

[Bigboss84]

I wouldn't call it bad game design, but I will call it "Unfinished" and "unbalanced" game design. 

I feel like PVP would be better in this game if there was a building material past metal. Something that's VERY expensive, but is in the end, indestrucatable(except doors, so bases can still be raided but not razed to the ground). That would encourage players to fight OTHER PLAYERS(PVP is PLAYER vs PLAYER after all) and move the play style away from the PvW(player vs walls) style that we keep seeing.

i also feel that if we want this to be more authentic to RL, then stone should be buffed to behave like metal, and metal should be buffed to be even more difficult to destroy. Hell, maybe even make Metal indestructable(like I suggested in the above paragraph)... I mean, has anyone here ever actually tried to destroy a stone wall with a sword, spear, club, or even a shotgun? 

There's a reason why castles were made of stone baby. lol

Despite what people think of those suggestions, Ark is greatly lacking in the "Base defense" capacity.. 

[Joebl0w13]

3 hours ago, Agro said:

Those servers will eventually be wiped on release. Unless things have changed wc said that servers with less than 50 average players will be wiped. 

Stop spreading this nonsense. They said they would NOT wipe servers on release.

They did mention that low pop servers might be reused/reconfigured for something else. They never mentioned what that (low pop) threshold is though.

[TheLastNerb]

21 minutes ago, Bigboss84 said:

I wouldn't call it bad game design, but I will call it "Unfinished" and "unbalanced" game design. 

I feel like PVP would be better in this game if there was a building material past metal. Something that's VERY expensive, but is in the end, indestrucatable(except doors, so bases can still be raided but not razed to the ground). That would encourage players to fight OTHER PLAYERS(PVP is PLAYER vs PLAYER after all) and move the play style away from the PvW(player vs walls) style that we keep seeing.

i also feel that if we want this to be more authentic to RL, then stone should be buffed to behave like metal, and metal should be buffed to be even more difficult to destroy. Hell, maybe even make Metal indestructable(like I suggested in the above paragraph)... I mean, has anyone here ever actually tried to destroy a stone wall with a sword, spear, club, or even a shotgun? 

There's a reason why castles were made of stone baby. lol

Despite what people think of those suggestions, Ark is greatly lacking in the "Base defense" capacity.. 

You've got to be kidding... If metal was indestructible, lvl 35s would be untouchable. Salting metal nodes would take days to resolve. Ive heard some bad suggestions in my day but...

[Agro]

13 minutes ago, Joebl0w13 said:

Stop spreading this nonsense. They said they would NOT wipe servers on release.

They did mention that low pop servers might be reused/reconfigured for something else. They never mentioned what that (low pop) threshold is though.

... what's the point in linking articles with folks like you around? What do you think reused/reconfigured means? If you are on a server all by yourself it's gonna go bye bye. As it should. Why would wc maintain a server just for one tribe? 

[Joebl0w13]

3 minutes ago, Agro said:

... what's the point in linking articles with folks like you around? What do you think reused/reconfigured means? If you are on a server all by yourself it's gonna go bye bye. As it should. Why would wc maintain a server just for one tribe? 

That's not what you said.

You stated that servers with less than 50 people will be wiped and that is outright false. That statement and mine, has nothing to do with a lone person on a server.

And now, back to the topic at hand.

[SwishPapaSweets]

I host two xbox serves and still with rules can't eliminate that top alpha tribe (admins are banned from raiding with admin accs) personally with a larger map and longer cool down timers and limits on transfering it would help reduce it but never eliminate the issues.

[Bigboss84]

1 hour ago, TheLastNerb said:

You've got to be kidding... If metal was indestructible, lvl 35s would be untouchable. Salting metal nodes would take days to resolve. Ive heard some bad suggestions in my day but...

Get gud... lol

Seriously though, I pointed out that doors should still be destructible, so they wouldn't be "Untouchable" but people would have to do work and have skill rather than just have a rocket launcher. lol

also, I was mostly just talking about the thought of something after metal that would cost a ton more resources to craft than metal. Or if stone was braught up to the strength of metal, then things like metal wall would cost more mats to craft. 

Its like you tried to take what I said in the most absurd way humanly possible.. I mean, I've seen people jump to some bad conclusions in my day but... lol

PVP>PVW... 

 

anyway though. As I stated before, my only real beef with Alpha tribes is the fact that they are spreading to and holding(stealing) multiple servers. 

If a tribe works hard and dominates on a server, then that's fine. That's the nature of the game. They earned it. but what's pissing me & most other people off is that they only have to work hard once. After they become an alpha tribe they can just transfer their lvl 100 guy to other servers with his lvl 200+ Dino's and take this places over too. 

Thats BS. That's selfishly stealing public servers from the players that aren't in that tribe and frankly kinda steal from WC.  

[TheLastNerb]

3 minutes ago, Bigboss84 said:

Get gud... lol

Seriously though, I pointed out that doors should still be destructible, so they wouldn't be "Untouchable" but people would have to do work and have skill rather than just have a rocket launcher. lol

also, I was mostly just talking about the thought of something after metal that would cost a ton more resources to craft than metal. Or if stone was braught up to the strength of metal, then things like metal wall would cost more mats to craft. 

Its like you tried to take what I said in the most absurd way humanly possible.. lol

PVP>PVW... 

 

anyway though. As I stated before, my only real beef with Alpha tribes is the fact that they are spreading to and holding(stealing) multiple servers. 

If a tribe works hard and nominates on a server, then that's fine. That's the nature of the game. Survive and get powerful, but what's pissing me a most of the people off is that they only have to work hard once. After they become an alpha tribe they can just transfer their lvl 100 guy to other servers with his lvl 200+ Dino's and take this places over too. 

Thats BS. That's selfishly stealing public servers from the players that aren't in that tribe and frankly kinda steal from WC.  

Again...You've got to be kidding me. When people say defense is much harder than offense, they don't mean make metal walls indestructible. Idc how much something costs, if its indestructible, then its unbalanced.

As for "stealing" servers... Youve got to be kidding me

[Jostabeere]

@iAmE You don't understand game design a single bit. I just response with the same thing to you. And gonna stop at that because I won't be able to make you understand it. You're free to believe that it's bad game design.

[spacejam]

i reckon ark is just one big social experiment and the goverment is watching us all to see how we would act in similar situations #illuminati controls us all

[Bigboss84]

1 minute ago, TheLastNerb said:

Again...You've got to be kidding me. When people say defense is much harder than offense, they don't mean make metal walls indestructible. Idc how much something costs, if its indestructible, then its unbalanced.

As for "stealing" servers... Youve got to be kidding me

You seem to think I'm a comedian. What's wrong with haveing to blow the door and go in after someone? Is that more effert than you want to put into a raid? lol

What do you think PVP means? Pro-tip: it's not an acronym for "Player vs Walls" or "Player vs Base" 

Titan fall would be a pretty lame game if you had to destroy all the buildings to win. lol

[Jostabeere]

7 minutes ago, Bigboss84 said:

You seem to think I'm a comedian. What's wrong with haveing to blow the door and go in after someone? Is that more effert than you want to put into a raid? lol

What do you think PVP means? Pro-tip: it's not an acronym for "Player vs Walls" or "Player vs Base" 

Titan fall would be a pretty lame game if you had to destroy all the buildings to win. lol

Oh. Indestructible walls with only doors being destructible.

So I just place an indestructible wall infront or behind of my destructible door everytime I go to bed or get raided so attackers literally cannot do anything?

Now that's gonna be a horrible design choice.