ClamsJager Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 I thought if you used mutton it dropped efficiency down big time. at least that's what I read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thalantyr Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 14 hours ago, Kallor said: More options for Herbivores I agree completely, but carnivores don't have 7-8 VIABLE options unless you are talking about taming level 5's for egg layers. High levels only had 1 serious option and that was kibble, now they have 2 (maybe 3 if you accept cooked mutton). I think they need to take a step back from what exists currently and rethink what they want to achieve and how to do it. Applying bandaids to the current mess isn't going to end well. It's not about having multiple options to tame at 95% efficiency. It's about having options period. It works as a progression system. Raw Meat is easy to get, takes longer and comes out a lot lower than the next step. You then continue up the chain until you get to Kibble. Look at the Pteranodon for example: Cooked Meat Raw Fish Meat Raw Meat Cooked Prime Meat Raw Prime Fish Meat Raw Prime Meat Kibble (Dodo) That's SEVEN options for taming it. Kibble is at the top of the list. Each one takes a step up in efficiency giving you a higher level. What's wrong with that? With Mutton in the game now the only time Kibble is better (and that's debatable) is when you're taming a L150, which means you lose ONE level. It's also 35 minutes with Mutton as opposed to 52 minutes with Kibble. Outside of the lag change this brings, which will take time, Mutton is OP and changes everything. We haven't even bred Ovis yet and have half a dozen just sitting in our base ready to go, just from randomly finding them while out flying, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerstuck Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 Before you scrap your kibble, just know that OP players on a private server with potentially modified settings. So his input, while may be valid, is not 100% tested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildbill Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 17 minutes ago, Thalantyr said: It's not about having multiple options to tame at 95% efficiency. It's about having options period. It works as a progression system. Raw Meat is easy to get, takes longer and comes out a lot lower than the next step. You then continue up the chain until you get to Kibble. Look at the Pteranodon for example: Cooked Meat Raw Fish Meat Raw Meat Cooked Prime Meat Raw Prime Fish Meat Raw Prime Meat Kibble (Dodo) That's SEVEN options for taming it. Kibble is at the top of the list. Each one takes a step up in efficiency giving you a higher level. What's wrong with that? With Mutton in the game now the only time Kibble is better (and that's debatable) is when you're taming a L150, which means you lose ONE level. It's also 35 minutes with Mutton as opposed to 52 minutes with Kibble. Outside of the lag change this brings, which will take time, Mutton is OP and changes everything. We haven't even bred Ovis yet and have half a dozen just sitting in our base ready to go, just from randomly finding them while out flying, etc. I think you are exaggerating just a bit about how easy it is to find and tame sheep. You can't just find them randomly, as they only appear in a small area of the map near the snow biome. An area of the map you may not visit at all some days. Also you must have sweet cake with you to tame them. Something that has one ingredient (sap) you must go out of your way to get and the sweet cake spoils in 1 hr 20 minutes, so seems unlikely you carry that around all the time with you. You can put it in your dino and it lasts longer, but if you do that it is likely to eat it when it has less than 85% health. Also 9 time out of 10 if you see a sheep and don't act immediately, you are going to watch it be eaten by a Rex, sabertooth, or dire wolf that are running all over the place where the sheep spawn. Took me about 6 hours of deliberately looking to find 6 sheep, there was nothing random about it. Did find about half that many dead or being eaten too! There is still a progression like you say, just change kibble from being something you use for taming to something for imprinting, nice and tidy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fewcm Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 Does anyone have any idea how many pieces of mutton can be harvested on official servers per sheep? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerstuck Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 33 minutes ago, wildbill said: I think you are exaggerating just a bit about how easy it is to find and tame sheep. You can't just find them randomly, as they only appear in a small area of the map near the snow biome. An area of the map you may not visit at all some days. Also you must have sweet cake with you to tame them. Something that has one ingredient (sap) you must go out of your way to get and the sweet cake spoils in 1 hr 20 minutes, so seems unlikely you carry that around all the time with you. You can put it in your dino and it lasts longer, but if you do that it is likely to eat it when it has less than 85% health. Also 9 time out of 10 if you see a sheep and don't act immediately, you are going to watch it be eaten by a Rex, sabertooth, or dire wolf that are running all over the place where the sheep spawn. Took me about 6 hours of deliberately looking to find 6 sheep, there was nothing random about it. Did find about half that many dead or being eaten too! There is still a progression like you say, just change kibble from being something you use for taming to something for imprinting, nice and tidy! While I agree about how hard the sheeps are...here are some tips. A Quetzal with a platform, foundation, generator and fridge on it can store the cake for its longest duration which is 5 days. Also,carnivores DO NOT eat veggie cake, the tooltip even says, human and carnivores hate it while herbivores adore it. I flew about 10 hours so far with a Qbird and cakes in inventory (nothing else in there) and never did my bird take one of the cakes...but still no sheep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eshkel Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 18 minutes ago, fewcm said: Does anyone have any idea how many pieces of mutton can be harvested on official servers per sheep? kill first yesterday, I've got 100+ pieces. 1.5x was on, I don't remember the tool pick or hatchet 120-130% and I don't remember the level of ovis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lockjaw Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 There are some things that I want to point out here: 1) If you prefer using kibble to do your taming then go for it. Kibble is still a viable option if that's what you want. And now there's another viable option available for those who prefer that. Nothing wrong with having options. 2) It might take longer to get kibble, but I still disagree that this 'dumbs down' the taming process. Actually the opposite is true because mutton taming will be more involved than kibble taming. Once you have the ingredients for kibble you just cook it up, store it in the preserving bin/refrigerator until it's needed, and then when you're ready to use it just transfer it into the creature's inventory. You can't do that with raw mutton because it spoils faster and doesn't stack. For a mutton tame you'll need to have the sheep there ready to slaughter on the taming sight. Not just one sheep either. As many sheep as it takes to tame the beast. And even then you won't be able to just slaughter them, put their meat in the carnivore's inventory, and walk away. Most of the meat would spoil before it gets eaten. You would need to slaughter one sheep at a time as needed, and probably hand feed each piece of mutton to the carnivore while the rest of it gets stored in a preserving bin. So I repeat: This is the opposite of 'dumbing it down'. 3) Taming isn't the only aspect of the game that is changing. There was a time when all you needed to do to achieve ultimate power was tame Gigas and Quetzals. And the only 'challenge' that stood in the way and made people feel like they were ARK pros was the insane time sink. ARK is moving away from that. Creatures are gradually becoming more balanced, the ultimate end game power is now tech tier, and the ultimate challenge that stands in the way of getting it is defeating the bosses. Taming high-level carnivores is just a small step toward achieving that ultimate goal so it can't continue to take such an insane amount of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTek9 Posted February 6, 2017 Share Posted February 6, 2017 Kibble will still be required for imprinting purposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildbill Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 1 hour ago, powerstuck said: While I agree about how hard the sheeps are...here are some tips. A Quetzal with a platform, foundation, generator and fridge on it can store the cake for its longest duration which is 5 days. Also,carnivores DO NOT eat veggie cake, the tooltip even says, human and carnivores hate it while herbivores adore it. I flew about 10 hours so far with a Qbird and cakes in inventory (nothing else in there) and never did my bird take one of the cakes...but still no sheep. Ah, good idea about the Quetzal with a generator and fridge. But, from the wiki: Quote Creatures automatically consume Sweet Vegetable Cake if their health drops below 85%. They will repeat until over 85% again I've had my wyvern eat the sweet cake, so this at least was true a few days ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kallor Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 2 hours ago, Thalantyr said: It's not about having multiple options to tame at 95% efficiency. It's about having options period. It works as a progression system. Raw Meat is easy to get, takes longer and comes out a lot lower than the next step. You then continue up the chain until you get to Kibble. Look at the Pteranodon for example: Cooked Meat Raw Fish Meat Raw Meat Cooked Prime Meat Raw Prime Fish Meat Raw Prime Meat Kibble (Dodo) That's SEVEN options for taming it. Kibble is at the top of the list. Each one takes a step up in efficiency giving you a higher level. What's wrong with that? With Mutton in the game now the only time Kibble is better (and that's debatable) is when you're taming a L150, which means you lose ONE level. It's also 35 minutes with Mutton as opposed to 52 minutes with Kibble. Outside of the lag change this brings, which will take time, Mutton is OP and changes everything. We haven't even bred Ovis yet and have half a dozen just sitting in our base ready to go, just from randomly finding them while out flying, etc. Because if something takes 1 day to tame that's not viable, it's not a realistic option. I mostly agree with what you are saying, all I'm pointing out is that most methods for taming carnivores aren't actually viable because they take too long, which means they aren't actually a choice. If you are taming a low level to lay eggs then who cares what you tame it with or the outcome or how many different methods there are. High levels to use and/or breed are what I'm talking about. Take that list for pteranodons for example, if the worst option was maybe double the time of the best then they are all at least viable from a time perspective, and what you tame it with comes down to your resources. Then you have 7 VIABLE choices with varying levels of efficiency so there is still a best and worst option. I guess the difference between our viewpoints is that you see non realistic taming methods (time perspective) as options and I don't. As a disclaimer I don't tame anything between the levels of about 25-130. Never understood the point of taming mid level stuff. As far as how I see mutton, if the purpose of it was to reduce the numbers of egg laying dinos in peoples bases then it HAD to be at least equal to kibble or better or why would people change? And if it had some other purpose then who knows what the devs were thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Addict Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 On 2/3/2017 at 9:09 AM, MrJonesDK said: You all properly know that the Ovis / Sheep just was release in the recent patch, but maybe you don't know that its meat is called "Raw Mutton". Raw Mutton is giving way faster taming than kibble and better efficiency than Raw Prime Meat. Even Cooked Mutton (Cooked Lamp Chop) has is both faster and have better efficiency than Raw Prime Meat. Taming a 150 Rex on a official server would take 35 min less with Raw Mutton, than taming it with kibble, but you would loose one taming level. Try look on Dododex and see the difference: http://www.dododex.com/taming/rex Raw Mutton takes 1 min to be cooked in to Cooked Lamp Chop. Btw: Level up food on the Ovis / Sheep now make it producing wool faster. I just made a video about what I wrote above, if anyone would find it interesting: Good Job explaining this . I already got like 15 sheeps. aiming to get to 50 and build them a little house lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thalantyr Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 21 hours ago, MTek9 said: Kibble will still be required for imprinting purposes. Which is still very limited in terms of what kibble you require, and you don't need that many eggs, let's be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thalantyr Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 On 07/02/2017 at 3:02 AM, Melcreif said: I completely disagree, I use Prime meat when kibble isn't available all the time... Up until the latest patch we'd use Prime Raw Meat all the time, especially for kibble lines that were extremely hard to get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thalantyr Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 21 hours ago, Lockjaw said: You can't do that with raw mutton because it spoils faster and doesn't stack. For a mutton tame you'll need to have the sheep there ready to slaughter on the taming sight. Not just one sheep either. As many sheep as it takes to tame the beast. And even then you won't be able to just slaughter them, put their meat in the carnivore's inventory, and walk away. Most of the meat would spoil before it gets eaten. You would need to slaughter one sheep at a time as needed, and probably hand feed each piece of mutton to the carnivore while the rest of it gets stored in a preserving bin. So I repeat: This is the opposite of 'dumbing it down'. It does stack, just the same way Prime Raw Meat does. Some stacks in x2 instead of x1, which means twice the time. We're getting x120 odd from a single sheep at the moment and that's on 1x, not 1.5x. In regards to putting it on their inventory, you couldn't have done a lot of taming if you're dumping it all in their inventory at once at the start. Anyone that's ever done Raw Prime Meat taming knows that you starve tame (aka let their food drop to a certain level and then farm & dump all the meat on at once). They eat it up super quick and nothing comes close to spoiling. It's no different than Raw Prime Meat, except that you can keep sheep at your base rather than having to farm the Prime from larger dinos in succession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TruGentlemanJ Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 When will xbox be getting this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimTheSurvivor Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Raw mutton can't completely replace kibble. If you do any breeding you will still need most kibbles for imprinting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HulkJesus Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Idk guys. I've played ark for 9 months now... Its gotten ridiculously easy.. I don't even play that much any more. I just sell eggs / kibble because now I have just gobs of it. Now no one wants to buy it.. Everyone's just like mutton this mutton that. Just my take on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xalienxgamerx Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 On 2/4/2017 at 11:27 AM, DeweyDecimal said: Might as well adopt the whole food system from prim+, varied meats, additional crops, into the main game When I joined prim+, poultry was similar in effect, fast and reasonably effective, (still is, but stack size changes balance things well) The crops act as a 'prime veg' as well. (Rice is faster than kibble, only slightly less effective) Thoughts? I agree with this so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildbill Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 1 hour ago, Thalantyr said: Which is still very limited in terms of what kibble you require, and you don't need that many eggs, let's be honest. Ya, that's good. I hope the direction they are going is that you won't need that many eggs. Let's reduce the size of these bases that have huge egg farms. Get them down to a reasonable size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emmense Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Can confirm this stuf is epicz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lockjaw Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 2 hours ago, Thalantyr said: It does stack, just the same way Prime Raw Meat does. Some stacks in x2 instead of x1, which means twice the time. We're getting x120 odd from a single sheep at the moment and that's on 1x, not 1.5x. In regards to putting it on their inventory, you couldn't have done a lot of taming if you're dumping it all in their inventory at once at the start. Anyone that's ever done Raw Prime Meat taming knows that you starve tame (aka let their food drop to a certain level and then farm & dump all the meat on at once). They eat it up super quick and nothing comes close to spoiling. It's no different than Raw Prime Meat, except that you can keep sheep at your base rather than having to farm the Prime from larger dinos in succession. Meh, I don't think that kibble has been replaced. Especially taking into account that it is needed for imprinting. But even if it were replaced I would be perfectly fine with that. Normally I'm a big supporter of game balance, but I don't see how the removal of kibble would hurt anyone. This isn't like a dino vs dino balance issue. If a dinosaur is obsolete then the fans of that dinosaur have been pooped on, and if a dinosaur is overpowered then it can break PvP or just make PvE too easy. This is just a nice new feature that benefits everyone. And, again, making egg farms smaller and less laggy is a good thing which is surely worth some sort of sacrifice. But I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fewcm Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 On 2/6/2017 at 6:02 PM, wildbill said: Ah, good idea about the Quetzal with a generator and fridge. But, from the wiki: I've had my wyvern eat the sweet cake, so this at least was true a few days ago. My arge has eaten sweet veggie cakes too I don't trust her to carry them anymore... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRoss Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 On 6-2-2017 at 10:40 PM, Thalantyr said: It's not about having multiple options to tame at 95% efficiency. It's about having options period. It works as a progression system. Raw Meat is easy to get, takes longer and comes out a lot lower than the next step. You then continue up the chain until you get to Kibble. Look at the Pteranodon for example: Cooked Meat Raw Fish Meat Raw Meat Cooked Prime Meat Raw Prime Fish Meat Raw Prime Meat Kibble (Dodo) That's SEVEN options for taming it. Kibble is at the top of the list. Each one takes a step up in efficiency giving you a higher level. What's wrong with that? With Mutton in the game now the only time Kibble is better (and that's debatable) is when you're taming a L150, which means you lose ONE level. It's also 35 minutes with Mutton as opposed to 52 minutes with Kibble. Outside of the lag change this brings, which will take time, Mutton is OP and changes everything. We haven't even bred Ovis yet and have half a dozen just sitting in our base ready to go, just from randomly finding them while out flying, etc. Kibble wont be replaced by this, sure as far as the taming aspect goes kibble will make room for the mutton meat but you will still need kibble to raise your babies. And i feel like this is a good thing, kibble doesnt need to be a necessity at 2 places, right now you can delete a big portion of your kibble farm and only keep the egg layers around of which you'll need the kibble to imprint your dinos. i seriously see no pros to the former way of taming (carnivores) compared to now, and i really hope they make kibble obsolute for taming herbivores too when they introduce some herbi food or prime vegetable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTMalum Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Doing any big tames in raw mutton seems pretty unsustainable. From what I understand, the sheep are incredibly hard to find, so farming wild mutton for the tame is really not an option. The only option, then, would be to become a shepherd and breed sheep for mutton. Since everyone here is denouncing the egg farms, and raising sheep for mutton is pretty much the same thing, except much more resource intensive, it seems pretty pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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