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Open Letter to Ced


Ghault

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1 hour ago, Ghault said:

This is just my opinion.  Well my stated opinion from an entire server full of pissed off people.  Some of you are fine with it.  Some are not. to each their own but  I will say that I am not happy and I have reasons for being so.

I don't know if this was directed at me or if I was lumped into it, so forgive me if this wasn't intended to bring me into it.  Having said that, I'm no where near being happy.  I think that what is happening is maddening and frustrating.  While those feelings I have we all seem to believe that they're justified, the method by which we're now getting out the proverbial "Torches and Pitchforks" seems to be a bit heavy handed.

  • WildCard needs to be better at getting bugs repaired.
    • Primitive Plus needs to be better at getting bugs repaired
  • WildCard needs to be better at communicating with the player base
    • Primitive Plus needs to be better at communicating with the player base
  • WildCard needs to be better at providing support to their player base.
    • Primitive Plus needs to be better at providing support to their player base.

I used this tiered critique to kind of show what I've been saying in a couple of related threads here.  This starts at the top.

Having a single programmer running an entire modification is silly.  I talk about it with the folks who work for me.  I call it the "Hit by the bus" protocol.  If everyone works in a vacuum and Tommy gets hit by a bus who the hell knows what is going on with the "Widgets and Gadgets" that Tommy was working on.  Answer:  No one.  This is what WildCard has done and it's not just with Primitive Plus.  All you have to do is go and look at the Center map.  It's fallen behind too.  All this happening while the initial game,and their money grab Scorched Earth just keep pressing along.

All I'm saying is that there is plenty of blame to go around here.  Some with the players and our expectations.  Some with @complexminded and the issues that keep coming up.  Some with @Jeremy Stieglitz and the lack of support for officially sponsored modifications in the Center and Primitive Plus.  

 

In closing, I firmly believe you're either a part of the problem or part of the solution.  Having said that, I've already sent a message saying I'm willing to help @complexminded but I'm not a programmer.  So what that help is ... well if I can get him a cup of coffee I'll order it and have it uber'd over.  But, I'd like to see more people wanting to help solve the problem than pointing out the issues and doing nothing about it.  That is counterproductive.  Especially considering @complexminded had a death in the family, the holidays in there.

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Sorry but there is nothing game breaking with prim+ right this moment and what we got with this patch (saddles, kibble working, items working, sap tap etc) far outweighs any bugs that currently exist. Prim+ is better off post patch than pre patch and I challenge anyone to show me a game breaking bug in current build that convinces me we are better off losing everything we got just so that bug goes away

It is very tiring seeing people throw the word "game breaking" around these forums or imply game breaking bugs when they are just an inconvenience.

Game breaking was losing all our bases on Day 1 of patch which was rolled back.

What is game breaking right this moment is the incredible lag and daily server crashes with rollback. I know not WC's fault entirely but their priority should be talking to their host and sorting the lag out, so many about to quit over that. I am posting here because my server crashed and I am at the log in screen waiting for it to restart. Daily occurrence and not even peak time. That's game breaking.

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45 minutes ago, Ghault said:

You misunderstand if you think I want everything perfect.  Lets face it the game gets patches almost daily when a new Content patch comes out because of all the little stuff the messed up or didn't account for.  What i am trying to stress is 3.5 months to fix a wall alignment that prevented the ENTIRE population of Prim+ to build a base.  3.5 months to fix it and now the fix is to TEAR DOWN to the foundations and rebuild everything.  3.5 months to fix the fix that fixed the limestone.. You know 7 months to remove a spoil because he had 2 or more versions of limestone programmed into the mod.  Over 3 month wait to fix beer, over 3 months to make Chalico's tamable in Prim+, a patch that broke firewood in cook pots and fireplaces, removed feathers, poultry, ribs and fat entirely from the game.  If there were weekly, heck even a monthly patch to fix something it would be different.  But no the mod is completely ignored.

My point was to explain why Primitive Plus has the update schedule that it currently has. During the early updates, a vocal minority very loudly complained about the frequent small updates to attempt to fix bugs that cropped up. At the time, people told Ced that they wanted him to establish a QA team and not post updates until they were bug free. Ced was willing to do it.

Here we are, 3.5 months later.

45 minutes ago, Ghault said:

I"m not saying a week later to roll us back. I"m saying it should have been done within the hour of it going live.  Have you maybe noticed servers that were back up to 40 people during prime time in anticipation of the patch are back down to 5-10 with people who are so fed up they have just left the game without an alternative game released yet.  Have you watched global chat on a server and just seen people say F*ck it.

Yes, I have. The server I am on went through the very same thing.

45 minutes ago, Ghault said:

Lets see, Tree platforms have been broken for 3.5 months, Sap taps yet the Achatina's are in the game but it's a sever bitch to feed them using a cook pot to make veggie cakes and that's only available if you fish for sap because for 3.5 months you haven't been able to place either a platform or a tap to harvest sap.  Yes each of these is an annoyance and one that we could survive with.  But th;e list goes on and on.  Lumber Glass walls, simply dismounting a dino and you wreck your walls, New ceilings are 25k health instead of 45k.. Where is the patch note mentioning this... New brick walls are now pickable.. Yes he said it was unintentional on a tweet but where is any mention of what he's gonna do about it let alone when he's gonna do it. 

The patch notes have always been woefully sparse for Primitive Plus. The main game is better at listing out their notes, but they have a specific person assigned to collect that information and put it up.

When bugs were being frequently compiled in the forum, we had a problem of: "Yeah, you fixed X and Y, BUT WHAT ABOUT Z!" Posts got so antagonistic that many were deleted, and it resulted in a really good bug documenter getting banned, simply because he couldn't keep his temper in check.

45 minutes ago, Ghault said:

4 days before he even started looking into making a patch.. Then what's his tweet?  A chia pet!  You may think I"m harping on 1 man trying to do the best he can.  No I'm simply saying How can you release something like this?  Where is Q&A?  Where is anyone who plays the game on a real server that could look at this?  5 minutes building a base would show you the epic failure.  And he doesn't even log into the forums to see anytjhing wrong... I understand he had a death to attend to.  No problem deal with it then when you get back your back.  But this patch should never have seen the light of day in it's current condition.

Re-read your post, where you express your frustration at having to wait 3.5 months.

Basically, Ced can't update the game without someone getting angry. It's inevitable. Ced already knows what the forums are going to be like, as he goes through it with each patch.

The best he can do is what the main game does: Do a monthly update, and put out small patches to fix errors as they appear.

45 minutes ago, Ghault said:

And yes if you have a 3.x5 base it's no big deal to tear it down.  But some of us have Over 50,000+ walls we have to tear down.  Ceilings that were snapped to leaning walls have to be replaced.. You can't pick them up.  You have to spend hours or days refarming materials and remake them all. Crops plots on these ceilings can't be saved. so again farming to remake, farming for the seeds.  You can say You don't see the problem.  But your situation is not Everyone's situation.

I didn't say anything of the kind. My whole post is: Calm Down.

Sure, though. I will address your point. Back in September, Ced said that he was reworking all of the custom Primitive Plus structures. At that point, I and many others went: "Okay. If this is anything like the main game, then I should stop building any further structures, as I will likely lose everything." A recent example of this is the main game cave wipes. If you had anything in the caves when they updated, then it was gone. There wasn't any fix for people. If you had stuff in there after the patch, then tough.

So, in the meantime, I built structure components for future base expansions. Of course, I have a LOT of unplaced brick structures that are currently useless. That used to be the same with old limestone, but Ced went in and fixed it so that the old limestone now works.

He understands the inherent problem that people are having. He wanted to give people a chance to pick up structures in order to re-place them, which is not a feature currently in the game. Does that work for everyone? No.

I assume that he will eventually do something to fix things. All we can do is wait.

45 minutes ago, Ghault said:

and remember most important of all. This is NOT just a mod.  This is an Official WildCard Supported MOD.  And with that distinction it's even more important to give it some love.

Which is why I know he'll get things back up and running again.

45 minutes ago, Ghault said:

This is just my opinion.  Well my stated opinion from an entire server full of pissed off people.  Some of you are fine with it.  Some are not. to each their own but  I will say that I am not happy and I have reasons for being so.

I'm not invalidating your anger or irritation. You have every right to be annoyed. I'm just saying that you need to calm down.

Ced is feeling just as frustrated as you are.
 

 

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1 minute ago, Cobretti said:

Sorry but there is nothing game breaking with prim+ right this moment and what we got with this patch (saddles, kibble working, items working, sap tap etc) far outweighs any bugs that currently exist. Prim+ is better off post patch than pre patch and I challenge anyone to show me a game breaking bug in current build that convinces me we are better off losing everything we got just so that bug goes away

It is very tiring seeing people throw the word "game breaking" around these forums or imply game breaking bugs when they are just an inconvenience.

Game breaking was losing all our bases on Day 1 of patch which was rolled back.

What is game breaking right this moment is the incredible lag and daily server crashes with rollback. I know not WC's fault entirely but their priority should be talking to their host and sorting the lag out, so many about to quit over that. I am posting here because my server crashed and I am at the log in screen waiting for it to restart. Daily occurrence and not even peak time. That's game breaking.

Did you just say sap taps working? Do you even play t his game on PC?

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Just now, TheSpirit said:

I think it's poopty for Ced to complain about there not being bug list as WC banned the one guy who would keep up with all the bugs... Just IMO

Yeah, Jimmy did a lot of hard work collecting and verifying bugs for Primitive Plus.

I'm hoping that the new bug submission method works for Ced. If people don't look at or even know about Ced's twitter, he posted a link to submit primitive plus bugs here:
 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

No white knight here, but do calm down.

I've bought a game that was advertised as a work in progress (on pc, xbox and PS4). I lost countless hours of farming to bugs, lag, dc and whatever. I lost bases and tames because of exploits. I lost whole unofficial servers because of those bugs. I do feel frustrated and angry when it happens.

But at the end of the day, there is one person to blame if I feel frustrated or angry about this stuff: Me.

I've bought a game that was advertised as a work in progress.

Reporting bugs, making suggestions, asking for balance is all ok.

Crying about a game that was advertised as a work in progress is not helpful in any way to the devs and to the players, old and new.

You can take a break, even wait for the game to be "done", or enjoy it now as a paying beta player and accept that fact.

Tomorrow they may completely change everything, nerf your favorite tame which you tamed 200 of because you thought they would be op in the future, remove a structure from the engram list, even a whole tech tree. It will happen.

Play with that in mind and you will be able to be constructive about your posts and help the game grow.

 

 

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