Real Talk 20 ton Mosa?

[Franhi]

So let's say it was possible to craft this.

 

How could a mosa MOVE with twenty tons of saddle strapped to it?

 

And lets take a look at this one

 

Now what human could move, at all, with better than 1300 pounds of weight?

 

Maybe instead of doubling harvest rates we should have a real talk about halving the mats required to craft items?

 

Think of the poor squished Beelzebufs! A quarter ton is just to much for a poor frog to bear!

 

[Cucharon]

Tek Tier

[Franhi]

1 minute ago, Cucharon said:

Tek Tier

39,507 pounds in ingots alone.

 

THE MOSA WOULD BE SQUISHED ON THE BOTTOM OF THE OCEAN!

[Cucharon]

Just now, Franhi said:

40,000 ingots.

 

THE MOSA WOULD BE SQUISHED ON THE BOTTOM OF THE OCEAN!

That is the cost. Maybe 99% of the metal is lost crafting it  

[Franhi]

5 minutes ago, Cucharon said:

That is the cost. Maybe 99% of the metal is lost crafting it  

Lost and isn't re smeltable?

Lost in the attempt to create the best saddle with no lesser saddles resulting from the attempt?

This aspect of the game needs to be reconsidered. On a lot of stuff it's eh whatever a few hundred heck even an extra few thousand ingots no big deal.

But in that mosa saddle we are talking about tens of THOUSANDS of ingots.

And the number one reason it is just not right, that is MORE stacks of items than you can FIT in a dino even if you had the weight in a beaver to make it.

[Cucharon]

14 minutes ago, Franhi said:

Lost and isn't re smeltable?

Lost in the attempt to create the best saddle with no lesser saddles resulting from the attempt?

This aspect of the game needs to be reconsidered. On a lot of stuff it's eh whatever a few hundred heck even an extra few thousand ingots no big deal.

But in that mosa saddle we are talking about tens of THOUSANDS of ingots.

And the number one reason it is just not right, that is MORE stacks of items than you can FIT in a dino even if you had the weight in a beaver to make it.

Evaporated! Because the atmosphere in Ark does that to metal when you craft with it 

[Layton]

I always looked at it like this...Smelted metal in this game is realistically not pure. Using as many ingots as that costs to get a better quality saddle meant to me that only the tiny absolute purest metal was used to end up with the saddle weight. So, a cheap saddle uses the full amount and it is refined into quality for saddle usage. The higher the quality saddle, the more ingots or mats required to get the purity needed. Worked in my mind.

[Franhi]

4 minutes ago, Layton said:

I always looked at it like this...Smelted metal in this game is realistically not pure. Using as many ingots as that costs to get a better quality saddle meant to me that only the tiny absolute purest metal was used to end up with the saddle weight. So, a cheap saddle uses the full amount and it is refined into quality for saddle usage. The higher the quality saddle, the more ingots or mats required to get the purity needed. Worked in my mind.

so out of better than 20 tons of mats only 20 pounds of material was actualy good enought?

Ok what happened to the other 39,980 POUNDS of material?

[Layton]

Dunno. What happens to the other half of the mats when you break a metal wall? Same place those went I guess.

[REEality]

Maybe i need to reread, but where does it say 20 tons?

[Asernon]

If saddles took in account the weight of mats used to craft them it would break the game. I wouldn't be able to use half my dino's. If they were half the cost many would still be un-craftable and if a lot of them were craft-able it wouldn't be fair. My tribe monopolized these drops and got a lot of already made saddles that are broken. We have a very large amount of saddles we can't craft but we did get quite a few that we can which is why we did monopolize it. If all the bp's we have were craft-able it wouldn't be fair to anyone. Our war dino's would have no chance of death. 

[DinoDash]

It's actually 20 lb's not tons

[Irk]

I have a feeling someone just wanted to show off their blueprints. 

[ciabattaroll]

Well, for starters, none of the weight is in pounds, it's just the assumption based on what term people are most comfortable with. If you look at your weight status, all it has going for it is a number. It could be anything. Pounds, stones, grams, etc.

Second, alien tech wizardry is how.

[Franhi]

2 hours ago, Asernon said:

If saddles took in account the weight of mats used to craft them it would break the game. I wouldn't be able to use half my dino's. If they were half the cost many would still be un-craftable and if a lot of them were craft-able it wouldn't be fair. My tribe monopolized these drops and got a lot of already made saddles that are broken. We have a very large amount of saddles we can't craft but we did get quite a few that we can which is why we did monopolize it. If all the bp's we have were craft-able it wouldn't be fair to anyone. Our war dino's would have no chance of death. 

So the seven AC mosa saddles i got from santa that are already crafted are fine, but the ability to craft more just cannot be allowed, ok then WHY have them in the game at all?

2 hours ago, DinoDash said:

It's actually 20 lb's not tons

Referring to the weight of the mats, post is more about making fun of the absurdity of it to bring about discussion than anything else

1 hour ago, Irk said:

I have a feeling someone just wanted to show off their blueprints. 

Guilty, doesn't make the argument and issue any less valid.

 

1 hour ago, ciabattaroll said:

Well, for starters, none of the weight is in pounds, it's just the assumption based on what term people are most comfortable with. If you look at your weight status, all it has going for it is a number. It could be anything. Pounds, stones, grams, etc.

Second, alien tech wizardry is how.

I base my argument on what the weight is on most of the none saddle items as opposed to what a similar real life item weighs. If it's not based on pounds then it is probably something between a pound and a kilo, since it's an american development team I am going to go with pounds as the most likely choice. In any case you are making a SEMANTICS argument that carries no weight. If it is more than pounds the sniper rifle and metal shield become laughable, if it is less than pounds than the club becomes even more laughable than the sniper rifle and metal shield in kilos is.

as to the rest

Is not a valid excuse for a broken crafting system in a game.

[LilNastyGurl]

3 hours ago, Franhi said:

Lost and isn't re smeltable?

Lost in the attempt to create the best saddle with no lesser saddles resulting from the attempt?

This aspect of the game needs to be reconsidered. On a lot of stuff it's eh whatever a few hundred heck even an extra few thousand ingots no big deal.

But in that mosa saddle we are talking about tens of THOUSANDS of ingots.

And the number one reason it is just not right, that is MORE stacks of items than you can FIT in a dino even if you had the weight in a beaver to make it.

Well in the fabrication and smithing process there is a lot of waste to make the "perfect" iron mold or plaster molds, especially since the "perfect" metals you need are covered in slag and amalgamated product you don't want (trace metals like nickel, lead, waste carbon, manganese and molybdenum). People didn't just grab an ore and smith it into the finest equipment straight out. Ascendant (in my head canon) costs a lot because of how much metal you have to burn through to get the Perfectly Ultimate Great Mold that will assure your Mosa it's ascendant quality saddle. But that's just head canon.

It's ACTUALLY all BS grinding time-sink bullcrap. I doubt the designers of the material scaling actually ever went out and seen what its like to actually get the materials needed for this.

I assure you, but unless they are going to add different tiers of metal (which I hope they don't, because stacking ridiculous RNG onto ridiculous crafting costs is going to be insanely tiresome). 

[ciabattaroll]

12 minutes ago, Franhi said:

I base my argument on what the weight is on most of the none saddle items as opposed to what a similar real life item weighs. If it's not based on pounds then it is probably something between a pound and a kilo, since it's an american development team I am going to go with pounds as the most likely choice. In any case you are making a SEMANTICS argument that carries no weight.

 

Even with that it makes 0 sense. Take bullets for example. An advanced bullet weighs 0.1 weight units. It's equivalent if it were to be a 9 mm round would be 7.5 grams, which translates to .016 pounds, and that's rounding it up. If it were ammo for a .38 special, it would weigh 0.0185 pounds. If it were for some reason using .45 then it would be .028 lbs per bullet. And then there's other things like structures. A stone wall of that durability with a wooden frame reinforcing it simply cannot weigh a mere 4 pounds. A "reinforced" door large enough to accomodate a dinosaur cannot weigh 100 pounds, not when The weight of a standard 1981mmx 762mm x35mm flush panel Lisa in the solid core range is approx 35KG or 5.5 Stone or 77 pounds..

Bottom line, none of these weight measurements follow any of those we use in the real world.

[Franhi]

3 minutes ago, LilNastyGurl said:

Well in the fabrication and smithing process there is a lot of waste to make the "perfect" iron mold or plaster molds, especially since the "perfect" metals you need are covered in slag and amalgamated product you don't want (trace metals like nickel, lead, waste carbon, manganese and molybdenum). People didn't just grab an ore and smith it into the finest equipment straight out. Ascendant (in my head canon) costs a lot because of how much metal you have to burn through to get the Perfectly Ultimate Great Mold that will assure your Mosa it's ascendant quality saddle. But that's just head canon.

It's ACTUALLY all BS grinding time-sink bullcrap. I doubt the designers of the material scaling actually ever went out and seen what its like to actually get the materials needed for this.

I assure you, but unless they are going to add different tiers of metal (which I hope they don't, because stacking ridiculous RNG onto ridiculous crafting costs is going to be insanely tiresome). 

Not to mention operator error such as mistakes with punches on the leather, over tightening the stitching and over or under tempering the metals.

The thing is even with all of that much of the metal from the mistakes can be re used.

Calling Molybdenum something you dont want is a bit off base IMO, best rifle barrels I have ever worked with are high moly content. and since we have the ability to craft a massive industrial forge we should have the capability in game to make good use of molybdenum, I could make similar arguments on manganese and nickel especially in the case of a mosa saddle that is going to spend its entire life in sea water. Calling lead a waste in a game where guns see such an active role also seems questionable in addition lead is a great filler material for body work on cars, and that platform that is spending all that time in water seems like a textbook case for lead as a filler.

[Franhi]

13 minutes ago, ciabattaroll said:

Even with that it makes 0 sense. Take bullets for example. An advanced bullet weighs 0.1 weight units. It's equivalent if it were to be a 9 mm round would be 7.5 grams, which translates to .016 pounds, and that's rounding it up. If it were ammo for a .38 special, it would weigh 0.0185 pounds. If it were for some reason using .45 then it would be .028 lbs per bullet.

Bottom line, none of these weight measurements follow any of those we use in the real world.

On average the items fall into the range between a pound and a kilo (coming closer to the pound side of the equation most of the time), with necessary adjustment for game balance.

Regardless of the unit of measure the crafting mats are absurd and you are still arguing semantics.

 

[ciabattaroll]

Just now, Franhi said:

On average they fall into the range between a pound and a kilo (coming closer to the pound side of the equation most of the time), with necessary adjustment for game balance.

Regardless of the unit of measure the crafting mats are absurd and you are still arguing semantics.

 

They really don't, when you take in the other things like stone structures.

As for semantics, I'm making use of this to point out that the weight stat is less some sort of rigidly defined measurement with a real world equivalent and more a stat meant to emphasize it's use for the grinding aspect of the game.

[Franhi]

2 minutes ago, ciabattaroll said:

They really don't, when you take in the other things like stone structures.

As for semantics, I'm making use of this to point out that the weight stat is less some sort of rigidly defined measurement with a real world equivalent and more a stat meant to emphasize it's use for the grinding aspect of the game.

Who would play this game if a section of stone or metal wall weighed several hundred pounds? How would you deal with crafting and building in game?

That is a necessary adjustment for gameplay reasons

Try again.

[ciabattaroll]

Just now, Franhi said:

Who would play this game if a section of stone or metal wall weighed several hundred pounds?

That is a necessary adjustment for gameplay reasons

Try again.

I don't have to "try again". The weight stat literally is just a feature meant to emphasize the grind. You can handwave and headcanon all you want on "materials being shaved off in the production process", but a hat that has cost "100 pounds more pelt, 50 pounds more ingots, and a quadrillion more pounds of fiber" that weighs the exact same as one that didn't wouldn't be 3 degrees warmer.

[Franhi]

28 minutes ago, ciabattaroll said:

I don't have to "try again". The weight stat literally is just a feature meant to emphasize the grind. You can handwave and headcanon all you want on "materials being shaved off in the production process", but a hat that has cost "100 pounds more pelt, 50 pounds more ingots, and a quadrillion more pounds of fiber" that weighs the exact same as one that didn't wouldn't be 3 degrees warmer.

 

The number of stacks required to make that is so high it exceeds the number of stacks you can put on a dino even if the dino COULD hold the 40,000+ "units of grind"

The number of stacks on a dino is LIMITED in order to avoid server lag.

If they add a Tech tier Smithy it will probably be limited the same way otherwise what was the point of the limit to start with?

So you are defending vendor trash in a game without vendors on the game forums for a game in development based on "space magics" and "Weight doesn't actually mean anything" and you have a moderator tag.

/facepalm

[ciabattaroll]

Just now, Franhi said:

 

The number of stacks required to make that is so high it exceeds the number of stacks you can put on a dino even if the dino COULD hold the 40,000+ "units of grind"

The number of stacks on a dino is LIMITED in order to avoid server lag.

If they add a Tech tier Smithy it will probably be limited the same way otherwise what was the point of the limit to start with?

So you are defending vendor trash in a game without vendors on the game forums for a game in development based on "space magic" and Weight doesn't actually mean anything" and you have a moderator tag.

/facepalm

As has been stated before (in previous digests no less!) plans for addressing advanced blueprints has been thought up before, be it their answer of eventually increasing stack sizes, to their answer of the tek tier equivalents of the smithy and fabricator.

As for your second statement, while I can only speak in regards to what has been said before, I do not recall any of the developers ever intoning that stack size limitations on dinosaurs were ever done for the sake of server lag avoidance. I know that dino size somehow factors into it (with Jat even commenting during the second life stream about how making the tusoteuthis bigger or as big as the titano would lag servers so bad), but not inventory space.

As for the last statement you made, nowhere did I say that weight doesn't mean anything. I said that weight is a measurement stat for grinding purposes, as opposed to weight being something to give semblance of "real world heft" to in game objects. And this is constantly, continuously, reflected in the game. The more weight you or your dino possesses, the more you can carry, which ultimately reduces how many trips you have to do going back and forth from a storage of sorts to whatever resource you're grinding for. Likewise the more combined weight needed to craft an item, the more trips you make to places to acquire the resource needed to craft them.

[ehuhoser]

Am I the only one who just says its "a game"  There is no realistics, there is no trying to base the cost to fabricate vs real world measurements.  Its just a game.