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The END of ARK PvP: C4 Pteras


xFish

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1 hour ago, sal said:

The best defense is still building your base so huge, so many turrets/xplants that the server will lag out the moment any attacker flys in.

After a certain size the server will just collapse under the load.

Last big war i was in (like 20vs20, huge base raid) server crashed the moment we attacked.

and several more times.

lag was unbearable

it took days to break in ...

 

so i guess to be fairly safe go big, go bigger and out-lag the attacker =)

We had war on a base with 20k+ structures after the new Physics, 80+ players were rendering the base. It lagged so hard, that turrets shooted one bullet per minute, but flyers could fly etc.

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18 hours ago, LilNastyGurl said:

C4 Bomb strat doesn't work as well as it would seem. With heightened guns (one above the other) the C-attack doesn't protect the rider from "Players Only" targeting and the C4 will detonate mid-spin before you get close enough.

Just tested it now. Unless you are attacking a base where all the turrets are on a horizontal plane without guns cross-covering each other, you basically are throwing away Pteras and C4.

Properly configured turrets are near-unbreakable with anything other than draining. 

17 hours ago, definitelynottyler said:

The problem really exists at higher MS and 255 ping where turrets take forever to ramp up/target.  There's a chance for the C4 to be shot beforehand but in a lot of cases due to server latency it's easy to avoid turret tracking almost entirely.

This isn't a problem that is the "end of ark" since c4 bombing has existed since difficulty 1.0 and turret tracking has been a problem since then as well but rather the problem lies within server lag being so detrimental and exploitable in the current game while also using this allowed pvp mechanic.  

255 is essentially a full crash, man. Nothing is happening at that ping. A C-4 rider is definitely not pulling off a precision dismount-C4 detonate with 255 crash-ping. Now, I get what you're saying, that lag can cause issues with the turrets, but it works both ways. The server lags, both sides feel it, and the side that already has the base rendered has the ping advantage. The invading force essentially has to whittle the base down super slowly by only rendering bits of it at a time. So dumb. 

15 hours ago, HannahBelLecterr said:

I agree with the spider/bola!

Right?!

13 hours ago, Mendoza said:

I really like the spider bola idea too!

RIGHT?!?!

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3 hours ago, TimeSpiral said:

255 is essentially a full crash, man. Nothing is happening at that ping. A C-4 rider is definitely not pulling off a precision dismount-C4 detonate with 255 crash-ping. Now, I get what you're saying, that lag can cause issues with the turrets, but it works both ways. The server lags, both sides feel it, and the side that already has the base rendered has the ping advantage. The invading force essentially has to whittle the base down super slowly by only rendering bits of it at a time. So dumb. 

It's extremely laggy yes, but I can tell you 100% people can still C-4 bomb with that ping.  Have seen it done on 4 servers now with 255.  It is much more detrimental to anyone who is relying on turrets (can be defenders or invaders - but it is usually defenders) but c-4 bombing has been done on 255 with ease.

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11 hours ago, xFish said:

We have enough mats to replace blown up things. There are just two problems:

1) You (Spartans) are attacking always at that time, where most of our players aren't online (christmas, new years eve).

2) Our base is way above structure cap.

Since the structure limit came out, there's nothing to do for us to defend against that. That's why I am posting this here, that's not PvP anymore.

 

once again, you are whinging about the same thing you did to others previously... so its not pvp anymore because your not the one winning? your not the one with more people?

i just find this double standard hilarious

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2 hours ago, definitelynottyler said:

It's extremely laggy yes, but I can tell you 100% people can still C-4 bomb with that ping.  Have seen it done on 4 servers now with 255.  It is much more detrimental to anyone who is relying on turrets (can be defenders or invaders - but it is usually defenders) but c-4 bombing has been done on 255 with ease.

Okay, so let me ask you this: in a perfect world, how much damage should a C-4 ptera bomb cause? You're using a tamed animal, a saddle, a rider, and a lot of C4. The bird dies, the rider dies, you lose the saddle, and all the C4 is spent. You already have the chance to miss, to get picked, and for other reason, cause little or no damage. So, assuming a direct connection with the target (which is not guarantee), how much damage should it cause? Because your argument seems to suggest that it should cause zero damage. That seems like too much in the other direction.

You spend money on buildings, electrical, turrets, plants, fertilizer, etc ... and as far as the turrets are concerned, aside from a C4 bomb, a well-designed turret infrastructure does near-guaranteed maximum damage output (they don't miss and can't be destroyed until they're offline or empty).

Do we really want a game with such a fool-proof mechanic?

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6 hours ago, TimeSpiral said:

Okay, so let me ask you this: in a perfect world, how much damage should a C-4 ptera bomb cause? You're using a tamed animal, a saddle, a rider, and a lot of C4. The bird dies, the rider dies, you lose the saddle, and all the C4 is spent. You already have the chance to miss, to get picked, and for other reason, cause little or no damage. So, assuming a direct connection with the target (which is not guarantee), how much damage should it cause? Because your argument seems to suggest that it should cause zero damage. That seems like too much in the other direction.

You spend money on buildings, electrical, turrets, plants, fertilizer, etc ... and as far as the turrets are concerned, aside from a C4 bomb, a well-designed turret infrastructure does near-guaranteed maximum damage output (they don't miss and can't be destroyed until they're offline or empty).

Do we really want a game with such a fool-proof mechanic?

I think you might want to go through and re-read this thread, I am not saying C4 should be changed at all nor should this mechanic (I have not said this anywhere in the thread), I'm not even the thread creator asking for a fix to all this.  Please do this before replying to this post because clearly there is a misunderstanding here.

With that said, resources do not mean anything for bigger tribes, I can safely tell you I've wasted resources/dinos/saddles on a lot dumber things than C4 bombing just because it is easy to breed 20+ pteras at a time and scoop mining makes resources in this game practically effortless.  So factors such as resources invested do not matter in the context this issue is being referenced in (alpha vs alpha).

At the moment it's clearly effortless for tribes to lag servers with either in-game or out of game factors and cause turrets to have the lag delay in tracking.  So realistically it might be worth just temporarily removing the ability to place C4 on dinos/players at all for the time being until they can come up with a fix or workaround.  I don't think the cost of c4 should be increased nor should the damage be reduced vs structures, I think the entire concept of C4 bombing would be a great dynamic for the game if it wasn't for the lag affecting turret tracking so greatly.

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