People who think offline raid protection would make solo PVP play viable

[Cullis]

are fukken delusional. 

It'd just mean they'd get to hear the teenage Russian sociopath wiping their base shout expletives about their mom while their base is getting eaten. 

Now I'm not saying it'd be a bad thing, if implemented wisely, but solo players would still be SOL. BECAUSE that is humanity.

One man alone can't do much. Do you think Elon Musk could build and launch rockets if the couldn't recruit people and have a company? And that's a guy who learned rocket engineering, in less than 2 years, has apparently boundless energy and can't imagine failing. 

And even if you made the game so that solo players could get all the features that tribes get, then they'd still lose. Because the tribe with 6x people would have 10x more, if tribes were not gimped on purpose! 

 

[mronemanmob]

That would just make tribes go "solo" while being in unofficial tribes and use the "offline" protected base for invincible shelter.

[TheSpirit]

1500+h solo PvP in primitive and primitive+, I beg to differ. It's viable now, if you know what you are doing and it would be viable even more with ORP. Solo tribes are not that different form 2, 3, 4, 5 man tribes. What you are saying is that there is no place for small tribes in PvP, which is insane model for WC to strive for. 
 

Sure you die and get wiped as a solo player by 10-20 people tribes... So what? Everybody get's wiped sooner or later. At least you had a god damn chance to defend your work and then you lost it. Even if you lose it's much more fun go out swinging, then go online and find nothing after night's sleep.

20 minutes ago, mronemanmob said:

That would just make tribes go "solo" while being in unofficial tribes and use the "offline" protected base for invincible shelter.

That is an example of badly implemented ORP. 

[OnePotatoChip]

3 minutes ago, TheSpirit said:

1500+h solo PvP in primitive and primitive+, I beg to differ. It's viable now, if you know what you are doing and it would be viable even more with ORP. Solo tribes are not that different form 2, 3, 4, 5 man tribes. What you are saying is that there is no place for small tribes in PvP, which is insane model for WC to strive for. 
 

Sure you die and get wiped as a solo player by 10-20 people tribes... So what? Everybody get's wiped sooner or later. At least you had a god damn chance to defend your work and then you lost it. Even if you lose it's much more fun go out swinging, then go online and find nothing after night's sleep.

That is an example of badly implemented ORP. 

Thank you, sir. If my animals die and my things get wiped, that's fine, because I tamed and crafted them respectively for the explicit purpose of a fight. I don't want to be robbed of a PvP experience. 

[IncredulousMe]

53 minutes ago, Cullis said:

are fukken delusional. 

It'd just mean they'd get to hear the teenage Russian sociopath wiping their base shout expletives about their mom while their base is getting eaten. 

Now I'm not saying it'd be a bad thing, if implemented wisely, but solo players would still be SOL. BECAUSE that is humanity.

One man alone can't do much. Do you think Elon Musk could build and launch rockets if the couldn't recruit people and have a company? And that's a guy who learned rocket engineering, in less than 2 years, has apparently boundless energy and can't imagine failing. 

And even if you made the game so that solo players could get all the features that tribes get, then they'd still lose. Because the tribe with 6x people would have 10x more, if tribes were not gimped on purpose! 

 

I seem to be doing just fine in single player. I certainly can do all that a large tribe can do, it merely takes longer which is fine. 

No one gets in my way. Death is either just bad luck or my own damn fault.  I don't have to be responsible for anyone except myself. I can shut the game off fully confident that everything I did previously will still be there.

So your statements are not entirely accurate.

[Cullis]

1 hour ago, IncredulousMe said:

I seem to be doing just fine in single player. I certainly can do all that a large tribe can do, it merely takes longer which is fine. 

No one gets in my way. Death is either just bad luck or my own damn fault.  I don't have to be responsible for anyone except myself. I can shut the game off fully confident that everything I did previously will still be there.

So your statements are not entirely accurate.

Single player is PvE. 

Duh!

[Cullis]

2 hours ago, OnePotatoChip said:

. What you are saying is that there is no place for small tribes in PvP, which is insane model for WC to strive for. 

I'm not saying that. I'm in a small tribe, and a 5 person tribe can do much ,especially if they have people in diff timezones. We've never been wiped yet, on ofc server with reasonably high pop, it looks even less likely now (cross-ark transfers,  very friendly terms with several multi-server groups). I specialize in breeding a few dinos only, have a ton of those. 

But solo? It's just so sad, kind of. I've met many interesting people in Ark, and you can learn so much from them. I've learned many legit tricks and even a few 'bugs' that can be exploited to make the games less grindy. I'm learning a bit of foreign languages too, esp. German, and I'll try to pick up some Russian  too. And what can you achieve in solo play? My tribe has a pretty big cliff-top base with hundreds of x-plants and ~100 turrets. A pain in the ass to raid, not that we have much good loot. A dozen quetzals, half of them battle, the rest mining/utility , a dozen breeded bears, 4 OP rexes(pays to have friends who tame all the max lvl rexes), 30 OP breeded pteras and that's about it (hello glitchers who had insane ptera eggs). Solo player would have a hard time achieving that, even if they played Ark full time. Mistakes more costly, etc.

(Wildcard has noob developers I think. They make beginner mistakes that don't even make sense to me, and I'm not even a software engineer, just had programming in prep school.  ) 

 

[OnePotatoChip]

Just now, Cullis said:

I'm not saying that. I'm in a small tribe, and a 5 person tribe can do much ,especially if they have people in diff timezones. We've never been wiped yet, on ofc server with reasonably high pop, it looks even less likely now (cross-ark transfers,  very friendly terms with several multi-server groups). I specialize in breeding a few dinos only, have a ton of those. 

But solo? It's just so sad, kind of. I've met many interesting people in Ark, and you can learn so much from them. I've learned many legit tricks and even a few 'bugs' that can be exploited to make the games less grindy. I'm learning a bit of foreign languages too, esp. German, and I'll try to pick up some Russian  too. 

(Wildcard has noob developers I think. They make beginner mistakes that don't even make sense to me, and I'm not even a software engineer, just had programming in prep school.  ) 

 

Quoting the wrong person there, bud. But good for you with the meeting new people thing. 

[TheSpirit]

26 minutes ago, Cullis said:

I'm not saying that. I'm in a small tribe, and a 5 person tribe can do much ,especially if they have people in diff timezones. We've never been wiped yet, on ofc server with reasonably high pop, it looks even less likely now (cross-ark transfers,  very friendly terms with several multi-server groups). I specialize in breeding a few dinos only, have a ton of those. 

But solo? It's just so sad, kind of. I've met many interesting people in Ark, and you can learn so much from them. I've learned many legit tricks and even a few 'bugs' that can be exploited to make the games less grindy. I'm learning a bit of foreign languages too, esp. German, and I'll try to pick up some Russian  too. And what can you achieve in solo play? My tribe has a pretty big cliff-top base with hundreds of x-plants and ~100 turrets. A pain in the ass to raid, not that we have much good loot. A dozen quetzals, half of them battle, the rest mining/utility , a dozen breeded bears, 4 OP rexes(pays to have friends who tame all the max lvl rexes), 30 OP breeded pteras and that's about it (hello glitchers who had insane ptera eggs). Solo player would have a hard time achieving that, even if they played Ark full time. Mistakes more costly, etc.

(Wildcard has noob developers I think. They make beginner mistakes that don't even make sense to me, and I'm not even a software engineer, just had programming in prep school.  ) 

 

Well seems like you just like to brag. Good for you that you have all that. It's not your problem how people play this game and what they can't and cannot achieve by playing solo. I know every tribe on the server I'm on. For as long as I have been on it (500+h) been alianced with half of the server (mosly because of anti-chinese coalition). I can get any dino I want, I have 1000+ kibbles from raiding. I'm sorry but only thing that is hard for a solo player is to tranq a quetz and you only need to ask for someone to fly you and that is it. 
Breeding is hard for everyone, not only solo players, the mechanics are terrible. 

(If you don't like the game don't play it, or even better create your own ARK. I, for one, see what fuels the decisions devs make, I just don't agree with them)

P.S. Seems to me you have no logical argument to make just what you "feel" this game should be. Which seems to be some language learning simulator/ intercontinental friend-finder. It's not.

[IncredulousMe]

1 hour ago, Cullis said:

Single player is PvE. 

Duh!

All of your points were for solo vs large tribe. Game type didn't seem to factor in to it, so I stand by what I said. I play alone and do just fine.

[Cullis]

3 hours ago, TheSpirit said:

 

4 hours ago, Cullis said:

 

P.S. Seems to me you have no logical argument to make just what you "feel" this game should be. Which seems to be some language learning simulator/ intercontinental friend-finder. It's not.

Edited 3 hours ago by TheSpirit

 

There is no 'logical' argument to make what a game should be. 

 

What I like about the game is it's complexity, the many facets it has (survival, FPS, jousting, capture-the-noob, cooking, farming, diplomacy...) and I don't like people who want to dumb it down.  It's complex, there are many ways to raptor up, but that just makes those successes feel even better. 



 

[Cullis]

2 hours ago, IncredulousMe said:

All of your points were for solo vs large tribe. Game type didn't seem to factor in to it, so I stand by what I said. I play alone and do just fine.

I don't even like to think about single-player or PVE, That's like 1/5th of Ark. 

[Cullis]

3 hours ago, TheSpirit said:

Breeding is hard for everyone, not only solo players, the mechanics are terrible. 

 

I disagree. If you are prepared right, it's just a bit tedious.

[TheSpirit]

13 minutes ago, Cullis said:

There is no 'logical' argument to make what a game should be. 

 

What I like about the game is it's complexity, the many facets it has (survival, FPS, jousting, capture-the-noob, cooking, farming, diplomacy...) and I don't like people who want to dumb it down.  It's complex, there are many ways to raptor up, but that just makes those successes feel even better. 

If you have an opinion it's based on an argument, If the arguments holds up to logic and is rational the opinion is valid.

There is nothing complex about offline raiding and there won't be unless they make this game a base-siege game. You find a weak point and you raid the base. It's the same as playing singleplayer with some creative AI that makes up structures for you to invade. The only ones who see something dumb about ORP are players who have no skill in actual PvP, where there is reaction time, quick thinking and precision involved. Because that is actually hard, but cry all you want that is PvP. Want to play siege games against nobody defending? I think you are in wrong game.

10 minutes ago, Cullis said:

I disagree. If you are prepared right, it's just a bit tedious.

Tedious is getting meat every 8-10h. Imprinting every 3-4 is complete nonsense.

[Cullis]

16 minutes ago, TheSpirit said:

If you have an opinion it's based on an argument, If the arguments holds up to logic and is rational the opinion is valid.

There is nothing complex about offline raiding and there won't be unless they make this game a base-siege game. You find a weak point and you raid the base. It's the same as playing singleplayer with some creative AI that makes up structures for you to invade. The only ones who see something dumb about ORP are players who have no skill in actual PvP, where there is reaction time, quick thinking and precision involved. Because that is actually hard, but cry all you want that is PvP. Want to play siege games against nobody defending? I think you are in wrong game.

Tedious is getting meat every 8-10h. Imprinting every 3-4 is complete nonsense.

I never said ORP is a bad idea. I just said solo players will be getting rekt nearly as often as with no offline raid protection. It's no magic bullet or holy grail. 

 

[OGCookies]

18 minutes ago, TheSpirit said:

If you have an opinion it's based on an argument, If the arguments holds up to logic and is rational the opinion is valid.

There is nothing complex about offline raiding and there won't be unless they make this game a base-siege game. You find a weak point and you raid the base. It's the same as playing singleplayer with some creative AI that makes up structures for you to invade. The only ones who see something dumb about ORP are players who have no skill in actual PvP, where there is reaction time, quick thinking and precision involved. Because that is actually hard, but cry all you want that is PvP. Want to play siege games against nobody defending? I think you are in wrong game.

Tedious is getting meat every 8-10h. Imprinting every 3-4 is complete nonsense.

I have to feed my baby IRL every 3-4 hours seems pretty relevant to me

[TheSpirit]

Just now, Cullis said:

I never said ORP is a bad idea. I just said solo players will be getting rekt nearly as often as with no offline raid protection. It's no magic bullet or holy grail. 

Then there is only one solution for the problem you see. Don't let people play solo... What do you want anybody to say to your obvious statement? Little tribes lose to big tribes too, so maybe there would be no help for them too if ORP would be implemented...

Strong win against weak, That is PvP. Not strong win against walls. 

Wiped 3 times now, been raided 6. Guess which times were online and which were not... Yeah, most raiders flee if they see anyone moving in the base they are raiding. And that is pathetic on PvP servers. 

[HippoZoned]

I read the OP posts and they pissed me off and are so short sighted its mind boggling. ...

Tbh I was going to go off on a long winded rant but I dont even think it will matter. I think tribes and the fact u can tame unlimited amount of dinos are why solo players will never have a fair shot in pvp. 

Some people dont want to play for dominance some people want to 2v2 or 1v1 some people just want to do their own thinwand be able to defend themself if attacked but I realized long ago its not possible if u dont have a large tribe so if u dont have a tribe of douche bags who wanna try to dominate everyone stay out of pvp 

[Cullis]

3 hours ago, HippoZoned said:

I read the OP posts and they pissed me off and are so short sighted its mind boggling. ...

Tbh I was going to go off on a long winded rant but I dont even think it will matter. I think tribes and the fact u can tame unlimited amount of dinos are why solo players will never have a fair shot in pvp. 

Some people dont want to play for dominance some people want to 2v2 or 1v1 some people just want to do their own thinwand be able to defend themself if attacked but I realized long ago its not possible if u dont have a large tribe so if u dont have a tribe of douche bags who wanna try to dominate everyone stay out of pvp 

The only way you could make solo tribes competitive with big ones is by punishing cooperation. And that would only make people split into separate small tribes to get the bonuses. 

[HippoZoned]

9 hours ago, Cullis said:

The only way you could make solo tribes competitive with big ones is by punishing cooperation. And that would only make people split into separate small tribes to get the bonuses. 

Not so, you could 

- Make defending easier and less costly

- Limit the number of tamed dinos per person per tribe. Because honestly who the hell needs 4-6 gigas 

- Add decent offline protection to protect things so when a solo player or small tribe goes offline tbwy can't be raided. Because right now larger tribes or alpha tribes will attack anyone building up that may pose a threat because they dont want the challenge. Thus keeping their dominance. Right now ark is a dictatorship. 

 

There are many more things that could be done this is to list a few.

[UnhappyCamper]

On 12/1/2016 at 1:50 AM, TheSpirit said:

1500+h solo PvP in primitive and primitive+, I beg to differ. It's viable now, if you know what you are doing and it would be viable even more with ORP. Solo tribes are not that different form 2, 3, 4, 5 man tribes. What you are saying is that there is no place for small tribes in PvP, which is insane model for WC to strive for. 
 

Sure you die and get wiped as a solo player by 10-20 people tribes... So what? Everybody get's wiped sooner or later. At least you had a god damn chance to defend your work and then you lost it. Even if you lose it's much more fun go out swinging, then go online and find nothing after night's sleep.

That is an example of badly implemented ORP. 

+1 

Official PVP currently has no place for the single man tribe and that is sad. it's 20+ but even then you really need 40+ to be able to survive the zerg assaults we have now.

[waterKeeper]

On Wednesday, November 30, 2016 at 11:47 AM, TheSpirit said:

I'm sorry but only thing that is hard for a solo player is to tranq a quetz and you only need to ask for someone to fly you and that is it. 

For me, the ONLY thing hard about solo play are dc's. Even the solo quetz tame isn't bad ever since grappling hooks were added. I tamed a quetz on a true solo run on official hardcore with no backup admin members. That means game over at one death, lose EVERYTHING. I was working on getting my first giga on that particular server, again solo, had one failed attempt trapping it and it ended up drowning. I would have tamed one, I've done it b4, but SE released and it's allure was strong so I transfered that character to Scorched solo and died in an offline raid. My blood stained my adobe floors. That character lasted like 3 months on official, survived multiple dc's, one offline raid, plenty of other close calls with the weather and wild life, and then died in the 2nd offline raid. Game over. 

 

Oh, and I work full time, was probably working a minimum of 50 hour weeks then. Just treated ark like the second job that it is....

[JohnnyNumberFive]

I think you guys are all forgetting something...

It's already implemented. There are official servers with ORP available - Why is everyone acting like it isn't out yet? I had to blink twice, because for a moment I thought this was a resurrected thread from earlier this year...

[Zenos]

I would happily play Offline Raid Protection (ORP) with the restrictions (IE no alliance/no PINs/turrets not shooting when in effect) if it means I have the opportunity to defend myself. I've been in medium and one person tribes and everytime we got wiped when offline. TheSpirit is right that PvW (player vs wall) is not PvP. Alpha tribes are too reliant on bullet sponge turrets and then attack offline. No tactics, no danger, no ingenuity. This facet could be a god send. This solves a great deal of troubles. 

1: Mid flight disconnect or server crash/update, if you can't reconnect immediately your animal and maybe yourself will be safe until you rejoin

2: With Cross Ark Transfer everyone is paranoid (blocking drops, sealing obelisks) with this in place that risk of offline destruction is null and should alleviate that reaction

3: Small tribes fearful of being insided or just wanting to "do their own thing" will have some measure of protection while they sleep or work

         -While this does mean smaller tribes can duck offline to protect themselves, like gophers, it only means aggressive tribes need to be more organized and tactful to attack

                them.

                       -Better to hinder the bully than the victim

         -Most that wish for this often want the chance to defend, so while some will duck offline most will likely stay and fight since they want to protect what they have and enjoy

                the PvP struggle

4: Will encourage the PvP aspect of the game once again rather than having Alpha tribes cower until the victim goes offline

Overall it allows people to play and not HAVE to stress over offline raids. We only want a fair shot at defending.

 

         

[DeweyDecimal]

On 01/12/2016 at 4:42 AM, HippoZoned said:

- Limit the number of tamed dinos per person per tribe. Because honestly who the hell needs 4-6 gigas 

Someone who's breeding Gigas.